Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey Guys,
I have quite a few adult greeri (its actually my favorite kingsnake species) and recently acquired a couple animals to cross back into my stock to help diversify the bloodline. Everything is fine, but one of my newest acquisitions I purchased at Repticon Columbia this past week has me troubled. It was purchased as a female. The guy said he has trouble getting his pair to breed this season and thought it could have been from lack of a good enough brumation. He thought maybe they just didnt get cold enough. Well I know from experience greeri need to get pretty cold during brumation, so I thought his theory was completely valid. Anyway I had the guy probe it, unfortunately I wasnt in front of him when he probed it (I know I know, but I just couldnt be there at that moment and he had to borrow someone elses probes in order to reprobe it for me). I came back to check and see if he had luck finding someone to borrow their probes and he said yes and confirmed it was a female.

Now I got it home, and probed it and here is my issue. The thing probed 5 1/2 - 6 scales deep. I have 6 adult known proven females (proven by me so I know they are females 100%), and the deepest one of them probes is 4 scales. On the other hand I have 4 adult proven males, and the shallowest that one of them probes is 8-8 1/2 scales deep.

All my greeri have the same tail shape, male, and female. But my males tales are generally an inch or more longer than the females. I compared the unknown animals tail to every adult greeri I have, and its tail is about the same length as all my females. They all vary a bit but I would say its tail is an inch shorter than any of my males.

It is also a fairly large and robust greeri. I cannot remember what it weighed right off hand but I think in the 300 gram range, but if needed I can get an exact weight. I could also take tail pictures if it would help anyone.
Thanks for anyone that can help me solve this dilemma
Will Wohlers

Sounds very hard to tell since it's seems inbetween on all characteristics. Short of an Xray about all you can do is put it in with a male next spring and see what happens.

I'd love to see pics of your greeri, they are my favorite mexicana "ssp".
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www.hcu-tx.org/

When determining gender, there are a number of methods. Probing can be in error, all the probe has to do is penetrate soft tissue and the reading will be wrong.
montane kings are so easy to evert. And so telling. If it pops, its a male, if it has blood spots(little red spots) its a female. You can also feel the hemipenes.
Also all these kings can be reproduced without hibernation or brumation. Its much more dependable when bromating, but its not necessary. ITs just not a tool to determine gender.
Tweeners are relatively common in captivity and nature, with many species of reptiles. In most cases they are undeveloped males. Consider, Dna, only tells the body to produce and deliver hormomes at a certain time. If the body fails, then you see tweeners. Best wishes