Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Between what happened to those two poor Canadian boys recently, all of the laws and legislature that herping has had to face in the last decade, and the media's ignorance when it comes to reptiles as a whole (including STUPID with a capital S movies, news et cetera), do you guys ever worry about a hognose bite hitting the news?

I don't want to get into a "are hogs venomous or nonvenomous" debate here but, can you imagine what would happen if the media caught wind of an ugly hognose bite reaction? Of course, there will be no logic or education involved on "their" part and we will be villainized.

Do you worry about it? Do you query potential customers about the fact that they're rear fanged? Just want some input. Thanks.
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"You ever talk to me like that again...and I'll turn your balls into earrings. Understand?"

"Go for it."

I got a few ball pythons and a metri f***ton of colubrids.

Snakes on planes, snakes in the woods, snakes in the water, you're not safe anywhere! Now they're dropping from the rafters!

Once the media latches on to a story like this it will run with it. I still haven't seen anything that says it was trying to eat them or for that matter even bit them. Last I heard was it fell on them and was grabbing whatever it could to steady itself from the fall.

You mean to tell me that Hog's are venomous? oh my! I saw the photo of Troy's hand, ya that was pretty wild!

What about the story of the little puppy being eaten by the owners Retic a month or so back? Didn't see that one on the news.

It's just going to get tougher to be able to keep the larger constrictors that's for sure. Watch the fall out from this, more bans, registration requirements ect...

i always inform anyone who is going to even hold any of my hogs that they are rear fanged. however unlikely it might be that they would bite, it is still wise to inform people of the facts. i certainly would inform someone if they were buying one. although, they are not considered poisonous and even a child can legally buy one. that is excluding local state regulations with bans and permits required

i got my first boa when i was 12 yrs old, which was decades ago. i have kept and bred on a small hobbyist scale many reptiles since. do i think reptiles in general are that dangerous... no. do they have the potential to be? yes, look at the facts :/ people can be seriously injured and killed by some of them. there are always going to be IDIOTS in this world that will mess it up for the responsible keepers. there are also some accidents and negligence. people that let their pet boids and monitors go in the wild once they reach a size that they feel is unmanageable, ect... i see and hear of it frequently here in florida :/

do i think they should have some regulations? yes, because of all the idiots that want to abuse the privilege to keep some reptiles. do i think there should be outright bans? no. i feel that responsible keepers should be able to keep and raise what they wish. there should be some way to track down the idiots that want to screw it up for the rest of us though. i think the media is getting all the hype stirred up. that is how they make their money. i think the government is trying to quench the people's fears, often caused by ignorance, by outright bans. i don't feel that is right either.

where is the middle ground? keeping people responsible for the animals they keep and also keeping the right to keep and breed reptiles? i am not sure...

personally, i don't see a need for hogs to ever be hit by any regulations. we will see though.

just my 2 cents... if any of that makes sense. lol

jonathan

A few years ago, an Australian herper and biologist published that most snakes and many lizards are indeed "venomous" and carry Croto toxins(same as in rattlesnakes), which can effect a bite. It does not matter if they are rear fanged or not.

many years ago, I attended a talk by Dr. Finly Russel. He included many cases of nasty bad bites from garder snakes, kingsnakes etc. Much worse then any of the rattlesnake bites I incurred. Hey, I am a hands person and touch things.

Such things as lyresnakes, have venom that actually kills their prey. I am not sure that is true for hogs. They simply swallow their prey alive. I also think they are/were, egg specialists, now or at some point in the past.

To me the subject is nonsense, and at some point it has to be pointed out. Behavior(ethology) in humans, places blame in "optional" areas so they do not have to face real blame. For instance, dogs kill more people, disfigure more kids, then all the snakes of the world wild or otherwise. Smoking, kills more people, destroys more lives then all the dogs in the world many times over. There are factories and university departments going full time making and designing weapons to blow people to pieces. From tiny weapons to weapons of mass destruction. Full time, 24/7/365. and WE are paying for that with our money.

So HOGNOSE, hmmmmmmmmmmmm they will do it(prohibit them) because they can. and that's the only reason, whatever you say will not make a difference. I was told directly face to face, by a Fish and wildlife higher up, its not about logic, or conservation, we simply do what we can. And things that are limited and WEAK(politically) we can have our way with. The government uses the entire country(tax base) to fight the very few who would stand up for hognose or pythons. They, fish and wildlife, do it, because they can, which means, they cannot do what is important, conservation and management for the people. Their actual mission statement. Cheers

"personally, i don't see a need for hogs to ever be hit by any regulations. we will see though."

A local show at the end of this month has these restrictions in place.

"No venomous reptiles (*). This includes rear-fanged species, such as, but not limited to, vine snakes. These are against Round Rock city ordinance. Round Rock Animal Control -will- be at the event and -will- issue citations to anyone in violation. (*) Special dispensation has been requested and granted by the city of Round Rock to allow the sale of Hognose Snakes and Madagascar Cat-eyed Snakes (Heterodon, Leioheterodon, Lystrophis, and Madagascarophis species).."

Now this is a small suburb town of Austin....so it's starting! Luckily the exemption covers Hog's.

I'm sure there are going to be more and more of these type of ordinances popping up which include big constrictors. All from a few bad incidents that are pushed in the news.

austin, agreed. that is a blessing that they made the exception for hogs. it wouldn't surprise me if they do start cracking down on them in the future. i'm not sure if i would be more worried about "accidents", as you stated, or just people's ignorance and fears.

i do believe certain states have regulations against hogs. i hope it doesn't go any further...

jonathan

In 1969, I had my snakes confiscated by the city of Anaheim, Cal.

The ordinance stated, all animals know to be harmful and or aggressive, are banned. The man in control stated, and I know(that fella) that KINGSNAKES are mean and BITE.

They ended up returning them but, I had a gravid redtailed boa and she aborted in their care. Best wishes

First I want to say is that any issues we have with bans and regulations can not be blamed on anyone but our own community. There are too many irresponsible keepers out there and more and more enter the hobby every day. Truth be told, I am all for permit systems. I think every keeper should be permitted in order to keep reptiles and should be subject to spot checks to make sure thing are being done correctly. The only people who would have a problem with that are those who have something to worry about.

For as long as I can remember, large constrictors were treated as not being a potential danger. The fact is, they can be very dangerous. They can and do kill people. Folks who keep these large constrictors have told me I am crazy for keeping venomous snakes. My reply was always, "If I get bit, there is an antivenin in place to keep me from takin a dirt nap. If a big burm or retic wraps a few coils around you, there is no antivenin for that." Besides, a young kid can go into a pet store and buy a burm or retic. You can not do that with venomous.

As far as worrying about hog being regulated goes, it does not matter to me either way. Number 1, I will never stop keeping and breeding them. I will do whatever needs to be done in order to keep them legally. If there is no option to keep them legally, I will keep them anyway.

There are only 3 States that regulate the keeping of Western hognose snakes Illinois, Colorado, and one other. I think it is one of the Dakotas. The regulations have to do with them being a protected species in those states. It has nothing to do with their fangs and/or venom.

So, am I worried about the future of hognose snakes in the hobby? Not at all. It will not affect what I do in any way.

Hi Gregg, again we agree sort of. Yes permits should be required for certain species. And that is another problem. Permits means someone has to approve those permits and that in itself is a form of control. Someone, will make those decisions and it will be a government employee, which means, good luck with that. So far, they have not shown any ability to decide anything correctly. hahahahahahahahaha sad but true.

I also believe that if that decision was yours or mine, we would be far to critical. So who are you going to have make those decisions?

So with that in mind, we need to stay as far away from regulation as possible. For as long as we can.
Sooner or later, we are going to have to face prohibition or government control.
What I recommend is, protect your rights as a citizen as hard as you can. They are being taken away from you on a daily basis. The rules state, the animals and plants of your state and the country, belong to the PEOPLE and to be used by the people. Agencies are appointed to manage that use, not prohibit it. The problem is, to prohibit is both easier and cheaper to do then to manage. Best wishes

gregg, well said and i agree...

jonathan