Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone breed Florida Pine Snakes? I know that are highly protected in at least Florida but people can still own up to one. I was wandering if anyone out of state breeds them and if so what the future of Florida Pine breeding looks like. Am looking into doing that (if I can) after college and working with state and federal parks on helping keep wild populations steady, not for the pet trade.

Not sure about Florida but I know California Fish and Wildlife are damn Nazis about releasing animals into the wild, they would much rather watch a species slowly die off then allow people permits to breed and release.....Now I am not saying it can not be done but they are very very select in the people they allow to do it. Your best bet is to hook up with a very well known person/group that deals with the department in your state and go from there, That is what I had to do for California.....OOORRRR just go on your own and don't get caught lol.

Funny you should ask, I've spent half my life in the woods here in Sarasota as a class III Collector, I just typed up a four page letter to Kevin Enge, the lead Biologist working with the FWC on the very subject. The FWC and a group of 5 Biologists just increased the status to a Threatened Species, which I'm OK with. The reason I wrote the guy is because while the FPSN populations will likely increase north of, say Tampa Bay, the populations south of that "current southernmost pocket gopher extent" are fractured into single-gender-heavy groups and those groups are separated by layers of roads and sometimes even counties and surrounded by hungry hog populations which I feel will never subside. The only chance we have here in south Fla of encountering the FPSN in our Parks again is if a breeding program is initiated, and soon. The genetic makeup of the southernmost FPSN is the most "heat tolerant" gene should be the one chosen/harvested for the breeding program, then the FWC should change the law to ALLOW LOCAL Breeders to breed local snakes (Indigos and Pines) for release into all the newly restored Parks, the law already states "no sale, trade or transport over state lines" that doesn't have to change. Believe it or not they factor in the off base idea that the FPSN is over collected, even though request like yours pop up here weekly from folks looking for a person that owns a pair. The part they don't seem to get is that people that breed the FPSN are passionate and would be happy to participate in replenishing the wild populations, even at they're own cost just to be part of it. I think that THEY think snake lovers are all druggies or just scumbags. The existing laws are only protecting them out of existence, at least here in south Fla. Find the link I posted a month ago here on this Forum and give it a read, tell me what you all think, ...All I got from it is, and they admit this in the "Species Review" that they know very little about the species and think restricting us from breeding it is somehow going to help the species?. Even worse is, the only law that IS effectivly enforced is the law that prohibits locals from breeding the Threatened species, all the while they're still evaporating like bubbles in a bathtub, all other laws that are supposed to protect them have 0 effect, like from road mortalities and new urban developments, or ranch worker killings, or NON NATIVE Hog encounters... I could go on for hours...

I posted the link July 11th on this forum. ....your right, officials will be scratching their heads in 20 years sayin, "what happened, where did we go wrong?", and I'll tell you, one problem is they finally asked the public for their anecdotal information back in Feb 2010 before the status change and NOBODY responded, NOBODY? They never contacted me or even posted it on this Forum. Collectors are the one resource they can really count for population numbers and localities but they never asked me for my 25 years of field data nor my opinions on the matter, the review board of Biologist simply quoted from 80 year old citations.

Yeah, FWC officials don't know what they are doing. Where I work (on private conservation land), we work along with FWC people and they are bumbling around with no idea of what is what - makes me agitated to know that THESE people are in charge of our laws, not real biologists (and if they are heaven help us). If they are SO against releasing CB individuals that are CB for the SOLE purpose of saving wild populations, why in the world do we have the Orianne project trying to restore Indigo populations? While they are Indigos and so darn cool, what makes them so much more special than a species that very well may soon be on the list of endangered species? I know of a few people who catch, breed, and release populations of a plethora of snake species where they captured the parents. The one thing that would have to happen is as you said, to release ones in an area, they would have to have the genes from that area. From what you said though someone has to start and SOON in the S. Fla. populations in order to actually find any adults to breed.

Amen! I spoke with Kevin Enge yesterday, he says that a breeding program via permit could be obtained, but as for releasing babies into the wild, his opinion? the pathogen theory is unsubstantiated, his words " a grey area" ...What we need is a good amount of new Biologists that have a passion for the FPSN, Kevin's passion is for the Short-tailed snake. Good news is, The FWC is about to start a advertising campaign to familiarize the public with threatened species of snakes, I suggested that a hi-def TV commercial on a common network station, on at primetime showing a EDR pictured right next to a FPSN so I'll never have to hear someone say, after killing a Pinesnake, that "it looked like a Rattlesnake!" Also a coral snake next to a Scarlet kingsnake and Pigmy rattlesnake next to a baby Corn and baby Racer, to show how different they actually look from each other. he said he would promote the idea. I also mentioned Billboard Ads on the sides of the Interstates so the public can't miss them.

Sorry but not true. Private breeders can not get a permit in FL. Ask Mark Bell...he tried like hell to do it, and his were all het for albino! He had to get rid of them all, because FWC wouldn't allow his documented captive produced animals into the state. We are allowed one. And when it dies, we have to go out and remove another from the wild, or leave the state, buy c.b. and bring it back. We can't even purchase out of state online or via phone and have it shipped in, purchase, barter, or sell is illegal.