Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a girl that will only eat if her pinky is covered with something. IE: water bowel, towel, between a fold. She's two months old. Her sister eats in the open doesn't care if you look at her or not.

Anyone else have a similar Hog? Time of day plays a part in her eating habits also.

I have an adult male that is the same, only takes his food when I put it in his cave. I can take him out and put him in a covered spot elsewhere but he doesn't even think about food, just about hiding. I keep trying to add more ground cover and deeper substrate to his cage to make him feel more secure but it just doesn't work. Could be that all my snakes are educational snakes and get handled a lot, but even if he hasn't been handled in a few months he is like that. I reckon mine is just shy.

And it does make more sense for your 2-month to do that. She is less than a year so she is likely trying to instinctively hide from predators while she eats. At her size in the wild most prey would be in a secluded area any how, and snakes usually don't eat if it threatens their life to do so.

Handle it some while it doesn't have food to warm it up to you, interact calmly with it (don't poke it to make it hiss for example), and eventually it should eat in the open.

No idea whats up with mine though, I treat it nice, students treat it nice, and yet it only eats while in its cave (and only the cave not other cover in its cage) and it only takes pinkies (hopefully I can get it onto fuzzies soon).

Well her sister is not shy at all. Very curious most days doesn't seem to mind being handled, will investigate any movement in her inclosure.

The shy one will not take food until around the 7th day or so from the last meal. She doesn't seem to mind being handled either, just wont eat if you watch her!

Another thing different between the two, one really likes the heat and the other likes it to be cooler. Pretty wild to see the differences in a controlled environment.

About what age did you start to notice a change in behavior if any when you had a hatch-ling for the first year? Any distinctive patterns out of the ordinary?

Hi Austin, I know you don't like what I say but its about the health of the animal and not you.

You ask, does anyone else have this happen, and of course there are others, that is not the right question. The right question is, what is normal for hognose snakes. Not in nature or in captivity, what is normal for hognose.

Normal healthy captives and wild hogs, are not picky. Or they wouldn't be attempting to eat peoples hands.

The next question should be, why are some picky and lastly why is yours picky.

Its a base need for all animals, to feed. In all other animals, birds/mammals, if an animal does not feed well, EVERYONE KNOWS, theres something wrong with the animal. This includes dogs.

When it comes to ectotherms(google it up) folks lose they minds. With mammals, the animals creates the conditions the animal works within(body temps) With ectotherms, the surroundings must the ability to allow the animal to maintain the conditions REQUIRED to perform and behave normally. This should be the first place you look, as its not consistent.

In your case, you have no history for that animal, so you have no idea what was done to it, or what may have caused your animal to be picky. It could be sick, or it could be traumatized.

In the end Being picky is not normal. Best wishes

Austin,

Unfortunately, there are those in this hobby that contradict themselves by saying:

1) Snakes are individuals.
2) Every snake that is healthy WILL always feed no matter what.

Yes, that last statment is true, but there are many deciding factors as well. That last statement at times contradicts number 1, and also, contradicts certain individuals who stress that what they do is NOT a recipe, but what everyone else does IS a recipe, and how we as keepers need to always think about the snakes, and so forth, and blah, blah, blah.

The hypocrisy reeks thick and bold.

But whatever....

The point is, snakes ARE individuals. The fact that your snake IS eating, but in a different way, is, to me, just fine. He is eating. You are doing something right. You are succeeding!

I have had some snakes switch from eating mice all of their life, to then, only wanting rats, years later. Nothing changed in their husbandry. Nothing. I, of course, looked at what I was doing at first, before I looked at everything else in the equation. I then had to give them what they wanted, not what I wanted.

Friends of mine have had snakes:

Not eat until they left the room.
Not eat until the lights were turned off.
Not eat until nightime.
Not eat anywhere in their cage except in their hide.

And then, most just ate, whenever, wherever.

My biggest bullsnake, will only take a dump inside his hidebox. Each week. Every time. No questions asked. Why does he do that? Something about his thought process makes him think and then decide to do that. HA!! I love it!!

The key thing that is good news is that your snake IS eating. It is just choosing, as an individual, to eat differently than your other hog. This represents that they have minds, they make choices, and they are again, individuals.

-----
Genesis 1:1

how weird does it get? Are you saying its normal for snakes to be picky feeders????????? Of course your not. Are they picky feeders in captivity, yes. Why is the question.

Of course snakes are individuals, but a feeding response is a base behavior, they all feed. Genetic picky feeders do not pass on that trait, as they will be outcompeted.

What is indeed individual is how each snake deals with captive stress.

The truth is, if Austin is happy with the way it feeds, then all is good. But its still not normal.

Lets look at this in real time, if you have ten hogs and they will feed every three days, and one hog that feeds every 7 days, which is normal?????
If those ten grow in reach maturity in a couple years and the 7 day feeder takes 4 years, which is normal and which do you want?
If Austin is happy with that, great, why would I care? I don't. But that was not the question.

What gets me is, as keepers, you folks talk about being able to provide optimum conditions, etc etc etc. Yet, you want to blame the snake, you know, oh it must be just a picky animal.

Husbandry means to support. Its your task to support the animals, and if some need more support, then change your husbandry to address that animal.

In nature some individuals are dwarfed small adults, the reason is, lack of support, like not enough food. Its not because the individual is a picky feeder. And there are huge fat healthy adults, who were lucky enough to hatch in a time and place of plenty of support.

But baffles me is, you can provide that support. But instead blame the animal. Come on, at least try.

Interesting how you "know" that there are no picky eater's in the wild. Have you watched every snake eat? NO! It is like say all men are athletic, no way. You can not make a generalization like that, it is only your theory. I have no doubt you have great field knowledge & I love your herping posts. But you have to get off of your soap box. Quit judging people by their post's, they are just trying to learn. If I were to judge you by your post's I would have to call you illiterate (to many wrong words).

billy and vanperry, you guys have me cracking up!!!! i will say though, that i agree with your post. i learned awhile back that it is a waste of time to read a certain person's post. imo, just the same self righteous condescending bs over and over, while most of the time trying to stir up an argument. anyway...

to the original feeding question... in my experience, yes, they are individuals. as troy once put, you have to find their "tweek" lol if your hog's tweek is to feed in a hide, then congrats on finding it. i also have a female that only eats in her hide, while her sibling literally comes out of the cage lunging at food off the tongs! i keep them in the exact same environments. neither hisses, puffs up, or acts stressed. actually, both crawl out onto my hands and seem to enjoy being held. they just each have their own personalities, if you will.

i only have 12 hogs at the moment, but each one is a little different. i have one female that used to lunge at the prey off tongs, but now only eats if left alone over night. i could name numerous differences. i just try to find what works best for that particular animal, and cater to it's needs.

jonathan

Instead of friggin attacking me, all you need to do is add. LIke what you said at the end.

You said i just try to find what works best for that particular animal, and cater to it's needs.

That is all I am trying to say. And its not what these folks are doing. They are blaming the animal. As you said, simply cater to the animals needs. Thanks

now to the point, its not about an animal that will not take food off tongs, its about an animal that will ONLY feed once every seven days.

You and I know, hogs can feed daily(smaller meals) or every couple of days, normally. Is that TRUE?

Its seems some of you folks care more about patting eachother on the back that taking care of animals. To me, your using animals to make friends, you know, like DIscern. Which is fine, but at some point, make it about the snakes.

IF you had any beans, you would tell me I am wrong, but you don't, you just don't like that I point out weaknesses in your understanding. You say, FR your mean and rude, well I am not, I simply care about the animals. You see, the animals are my real friends. They are honest. If you do not treat them right, they simply do poorly and theres no one to blame but you. Its not about me. hahahahahahahahaha

Hi VanPerry, Its not about a soap box, its about helping people get over the hurdle of simplistic husbandry.
In nature, all but the strongest are culled. Culled means, killed off by natural selection. Genotypes are the genetics of a local animal. Phenotype is genotype after natural selection. The animal that exsists at the time. To exist means to FEED when the opportunity presents itself. That has been culled for, for tens of thousands of years. Its hard wired survival. to feed.
If there is a soapbox its you guys that blame animals for not doing well and you keep them in tiny boxes. My PROBLEM is, I see them wild and free. I also keep them in boxes. I do understand what I do in captivity is LESS, then they have in nature. Much less.
Whats missing here is you folks want to defend LESS. Sir, there is no rule in recipe husbandry that states you cannot add more, or change it to fit individuals. In fact, all keepers that understand husbandry know recipes are a place to START.
When I was young, I had the same problems, heres a tiny story. I had one of the original albino and het az. gophersnakes. One animal was kept by others for seven years(a female het) It was 18 inches long. It was given to me to help with the project. It would not feed worth a crap in a cage, I got so fed up, I let it out. Loose in the house it ate like a pig, one night I heard it rustling around in the trash. It was attempting to swallow the foam part of a steak container. Another night, it attempted to eat my girlfriend. It had her by the shoulder and was constricting her. hahahahahahahahaha it knew something I did not know about her, hahahahahahahahaha
I could roll chicken eggs on the floor and it would chase them and grab them. But back in my silly cages, picky. So I learned a a lesson. MY cages do not have to be right, even if they worked with some other gophersnakes.
In captivity its a balance of how much can we take away from them and still have them survive. part 1

That was decades ago. What I learned was valuable. It taught me, I am not right. I can only attempt to be right. THE ANIMAL IS ALWAYS RIGHT.
To me, its simple, ITs either ego or ignorance that stops folks was trying something different to see if the animal will respond. Heck it may be fear of failure, as they stick to what they were told by people.
Already several people here stated that their picky animals made a turn around by simply increasing temps.
Whats funny is, I and some of my friends, do not take temps, we simply manipulate the temps until the animals do great. Who friggin cares what temp it is. Snakes in the field do not have therometers.
The picky snake folks are all about the temps. So and so, said this temp is good. And they stick to that until the snake dies, or lives a minimal life. You know, never grows up.
Nature has all manner of restrictions, cold, hot, drought, lack of food, disease, predators etc. You have none of that. WHAT IS YOUR FRIGGIN EXCUSE. Oh I know, its the snakes fault. Good luck with that. Its not the snakes fault, that is a sticking weak arse excuse.

Lastly, as I always say, if your happy with a picky dwarfed snake, then by all means ignore all I say. Then you try to make it about me. sir, its not about me, its about the snake. My I be honest, It seems you folks simply refuse to accept responsibility.
My rule is, anything bad that happens to my captives is MY FAULT, anything good, is all about the snakes ability. All a keeper does is allow them to do what they are designed to do. The truth is, they don't need you, except when WE put them in boxes. Cheers and out to see hogs in nature.

FR Is it that there are no "picky" snakes in the wild, or is it that nature is brutal & removes them the the gene pool. I think it is the latter. Timid (picky) eaters become weak & the weak are the first to go even if there is plenty of food available. What we have in captivity is the chance to seen those timid individuals. What we do with them is up to the keeper. I agree with you that I do not want them in my gene pool.

continued.. You put forth the premise that nature culls the weak (I agree)but you do not admit that is a weakness in the individual that caused it to be culled. That is what I don't like about your posts. There can be problem snakes, yes it is up to us to adjust the environment to help them that is our responsibility.
You remind me of a friend who spend 3 days telling me about all the deer he had killed with a 22 rifle, then he said the a 243 rifle was not big enough to be a good dear rifle. You just don't see the contradictions of your own statements.

The tens of thousands of years of natural selection, eliminates Or lowers the chance of behaviorally picky feeders in nature.

The rifle thing was again argumentative and useless as you did not mention why that hunter liked a 22 over and 243 and there are many reasons he may prefer his choice. A naïve person simply thinks there the same. An experienced poacher, knows they are different. I don't hunt game. I like weapons, mostly primitive weapons.

If there was an inbred line of hogs like condas that was troublesome, and if there was a pattern of this problem. It would be one thing. But that is not whats happening.
Its a problem of beginers with very few animals and its common with UNRELATED individual hogs.

Next, the recipe husbandry promoted these days is very very restrictive(shoebox) With the least amount of room for error, As the cages are so small, there is no room to allow the animal to have choices or better yet individual choices. If the keeper gets it right, exactly right, it works. If not exactly right, you end up with these problems.
I like to use Gregg as an example, a good one, because he uses rack systems, but modifies them to improve performance of his hogs. And hes not above testing something that may help his animals. As he did with nesting earlier this year.
What we have here is keeper mentality. Some keepers accept the responsibility that all that happens in their cages, is their RESPONSIBILITY, good or bad. Then you have keepers(egotistic, narcissistic), in this case it means, they cannot be wrong, so its the animals fault. They believe they did what they were told to do. So they are right. The problem is, its not about right or wrong. ITs about how well the animal does, PERIOD. The reality of keeping is, its not about who told you or what you have done in the past, its about THAT animals performance. And day to day, as you can be WRONG at any time. End part 1

You and others here, try to make arguments about of posts. You play silly games to trap posters etc. You make some silly attempt to make it about simplistic right or wrong. Or some silly possibility. This is possible and that is too. Oh come on. What good is that? All those "games" have nothing to do with the subject. Husbandry.
Husbandry is based on results, not, right or wrong or some distant possibility. ITs not about being contradictory, Its about results. In this case, the original poster had contradictory results. One hog doing fine, on hog was picky. Those two hogs contradicted each other. The keeper was new to hogs.
With that in mind, and the experience level of the keeper, do you really think the snake was genetically picky, or is it more likely that some tweaking of husbandry is required.

Lastly, Discern, Jon, Dm and others, maybe you, may not have good reading and comprehension skills. Simply put, this forum states RIGHT ABOVE, it's about "HOGNOSE SNAKES" You guys are on the wrong forum, you act like your in, "THE FRIENDS of HOGNOSE SNAKES" forums. You make it about personalities, debate, bla bla bla, you make it about anything but the subject, hognose snakes.

The actual question was, can you improve the feeding response of that picky snake, The answer is, YES. And you can by working on husbandry. Do you want to argue that? and please, 22's and 242's. Dang, how about polar bears. By the way, pretty sure if that newbie keeper gave the animal some time, it would be fine. shipping, shows, and all.

Perhaps you are right but I know keepers with 20 years experience with many different breeds. Yet they come across animals that do conform to the genetic code. Animals, I don't care what type are not like a box of paper clips where they are all the same. What we see with our eyes is only the surface. If thousands of years of genetic development was absolute there would be no morphs. There are problem animals in every species. I do agree with you that the answer to most problems is husbandry, but I have been around too long to say that it is the cure all.

This thing of 20 years this or that is silly, there are folks in all walks of life, that are good at what they do and folks that are, not so good. And it does not matter how long they do it.
This excuse of blaming the animal, without question limits those keepers from learning. For instance, if you say its just an animal that does not feed well, you will never learn how to get it to feed well.
If you would stop and just look at what I say. I said, there are many people with unrelated animals with the same problem. That sir indicates its NOT a genetic problem and most likely husbandry related.
IF you would try and learn, can it be a problem with the animals, OF COURSE ITS A PROBLEM WITH THE ANIMAL, the question is, what caused that problem.
Chronic dehydration is without question widespread in captivity. Ask a herp VET. This damages the kidneys and hinders feeding. Liver problems are also chronic in captivity, which when minor, effect feeding.
If there is an inbreeding problem that effects some organs function, it would be easily identified and should be eliminated.
So you have a 1/10000 chance you have a random genetic problem, Or a 1/5000 chance. If that was the case, what you said would not be true. But it is true, many folks have captive problems and its because the cage they put them in, is not suitable.
Now I want you to answer questions, Why do you think a little box would include all they use in nature?
While there are many areas that our boxes are limited, but temps is a big one. ITs common for hogs in the field to be near or over 100F. In captivity its avoided like the plague. I ask WHY? please make an attempt to answer.
So your right, there is a chance its not husbandry related, oh say 2% and a 98% chance it is husbandry related. Give or take a few percentages. So answer my questions please and not with oh this or that IS POSSIBLE. heck anything is possible, but I want to know what is probable. Cheers

Frank just wanted to add since i turned my herpstats up to 100F on the hotspot all my hognoses across the board are way more keen to eat, The one female i had that was not accepting food for over 3 months 5 days after the raise boom shes attacking mice again on a weekly basis, So the temp hotspot you see out in the field is SPOT ON for hognoses, Thanks.

I am glad I could help. They are amazing creatures, I am having a lot of fun with them both in the field and in captivity. Cheers

Glad to answer your questions. First I will give you a $1000.00 if you can find a post where I said small boxes were OK. Next in regard to temperature, I only know about myself. When I first got my hogs (2010)I read everything I could find. When I read a care sheet (I believe it was Lance's)& say the temp's he used I thought "what" these are US snakes not Africa. Then I remembered I have relatives all over Kansas & Oklahoma, I have been there in the summer. So I tried it & bingo, even though they were all eating I could see a big difference in their vitality. As for other people I can only guess, when you see the same "temp requirements" written in 10 different place (even if it wrong) that comes from the "leaders" you believe it to be true. This is a problem in all walks of life.
I have never disagreed with you that our husbandry has room for improvement, only that is not a 100% answer to all the issues. Which you finally expressed (although your %'s are only conjecture but I will not challenge that). With that best wishes.

Perry your silly, what on earth is 100% you trying to make anything out as 100% that is argumentative. All your doing is trying to argue as you have no point.

About small cages, I don't believe any of this was about you. It was about others with a specific problem. Picky feeders. Most keep hogs in small cages. Heck, I am not sure anyone keeps them in big cages. Say a pair of hog in an 6 or 8 ft long cage. But its not about that.

Any way, best of luck

Oh VanPerry, I forgot, because this is such a dead forum, promoting activity by being argumentative is better then nothing. hahahahahahahahaha It would be BETTER if it was about the animals. By the way, nothing is ever 100% with animals and behavior. That is math, not ethology. With ethology, its about trends. Look it up. Cheers

Actually you are the one who would not budge about "thousands of years of of genetic's" having eliminated all the problems. That implies 100%. That's grammar not math. I will now lay this down as far as this forum goes. If you want to discuss anything else feel free to contact me a TheSlitherInn@gmail.com.

You undoubtedly wonder why I would be interested in discussion's with you. My field experience with hogs is ZERO. They do not exist in my part of the country so I have a lot of questions about methods, record's & etc. I am sure you do more than walk around taking pictures.

Actually I do not wonder that at all. Whatever your interest is, its yours to have.

About field experience, I recommend reading what I say, like what is Ethology, then compare that to biology. once you understand that, then you can START to think about animals in the field.

ALso, I venture to say, there is something, herp wise that's fun to watch in all parts of this country, except Alaska. Best wishes

Actually Alaska has Garter Snakes, although the range is very limited.

And a toad.

I say that cause its true. Nature does not support picky feeders(under normal conditions) Picky feeders are quickly culled. Which means a very long time ago.

You do understand the context right???? The question was, does anyone else have they happen and is it normal. The answer, yes it does happen and its not normal.

If you want it to mean 100% then good on you. You can do whatever you want, including only attempting to argue and not make a point about husbandry.

Lastly I like Lance, believe in a free country, if you want picky feeders because you would do not want to adjust husbandry, then have picky feeders. After all they are less expensive to keep. Best wishes

What Frank is saying is totally correct, Not only that it is the same case across the board whether reptile or mammel, To keep it short and sweet a good term would be survival of the fittest..

Right or Wrong when it comes to Husbandry its a trick question, Like Franks saying every person to his own, Thats the beauty of a free country, I really think theres not much you can argue about with Frank about Husbandry because he has an expanded understanding about hognoses out in the field, All Husbandry starts out in the field thats a fact, Now add on top of that the Hogs he keeps at home, Also he is a simple man and concerns himself more about the hognose snake itself than others do that go more in a Morph direction and thats awesome!

Jam that all together and we have alot of combinded knowledge, So add some good old common sense and level head, Thats Frank in my mind and most here that follow his posts respect him for all the infomation he has collected in his free time will agree with me even the haters agree with him in the back of there minds but will never admit it lol...

Its amazing that he chooses to share in a pretty hostile environment, Hes right what he said in another post it will scare others away that are more conservative and all that leaves is a bunch of angry men that attack eachother lol or better said a handful on a half track that try to send guys like me to there virtual concentration camp haha sorry lol after all this anger and a VERY long run i just had all i seem to be doing is laughing humor instead of hate is better but off topic dam it! lol, Anyways back to topic!!

lol sorry frank topic topicc less person more HOGNOSE, Im trying!! Lastly thats great that there are herpers out there that like picky feeders because someone has to take care of them because nature would eat such an snake up for supper, And like Frank wrote lower cost so if that is working out for you congrats!, Me i love weekly feeders, Great being able to choose!

hahahahahahahaha I have no problem with the people that are all about the people. hahahahahahahahaha
I don't have a problem with them because, its not about them. As you know, those people are everywhere in all walks of life. People are either helpful or not. I choose to try and help. ITs a free country, they can choose whatever they like.
he folks like VanPerry, tend to say, your right BUT! hahahahahahahaha how about saying, your right, and then add to what is right. But they cannot bring themselves to do that.
In the field under harsh conditions, these fine animals are eating like pigs(hahahahahahahaha) breeding like flys, and growing like weeds etc. The point is, PEOPLE say, that captivity is better because we can eliminate all the harsh parts and the predators and the cars that run them over. And give them all the food they can eat and make their cages IDEAL. PERFECT etc.
Yet, all that ideal, lots of food, etc, is extremely rare in captivity. What is common, is marginal everything. In a sense, they keep them in total lockdown and solitary confinement. With the least amount of support. AND CALL THAT GOOD. From my point of view, I simply cannot call little boxes good. Sorry, I see their real homes.
My son is working with Westerns and I am working with Mexicans. He surfs the internet and tells me that most peoples breeders are tiny. The pictures I see confirm that. I do and did ask, and as you see, no one will give a real answer. Why?
Of the wild adults(breeders) I have seen in nature and I have seen a lot, they are 24 to 28 inches. The males, are 20 to 25 inches. And yes, dinky males at 12 inches, will attempt to breed. The problem in nature is, they are competing with the big boys and the results are not so good.
In captivity, shouldn't they be bigger, not smaller, eat better, not worse, etc etc.
Lastly freedom is important, why do people not understand, they are free to change OR NOT. No biggie either way. Not to the people. pt. 1

The problem here seems to be, people are so Judgemental, over everything but animals wellbeing.
My son, others and I, discuss this, I say, I bet these guys know better, they don't want the public knowing how to breed these animals well, so they don't have competition. I hope I am work because only the animals suffer. And what keeps this type hobby strong is everyone doing well.
So thanks for letting me visit the people side. It is part of the hobby, now I will go back to hogs. Yesterday, I got skunked. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha Must have been thinking about this fourm. Best wishes

You are right you do not lol you are just helpful... I have known this for a longgg time in Europe it is very well known that in America, Breeders hate the public knowing anything to do with breeding or morphs and keeping them stupid and scared is common, I have had a word in person to John Berry with this subject before his answer was why do you think i wrote this book! hahaha, My reply was you are making 50% of American hognose fans happy the in the dark ones lol and the other 50% breeders will hate you even if some are seen in your book which is cool, He said I know... Heres a good example Sand Boa Morph hand book written by an American Breeder, EVERYTHING inside exept BREEDING hahahahahahahahahaha sorry Frank that was pretty much the same as your hahahahahahaahaha Laughing instead of getting angry really does work better, Now i see why Gregg jokes alot..

Bullys loveee attacking newbies in forums love classing them as idiots with there virtual and mostly unhelpful egos, I see it like this, Everyone has to start somewhere whatever age help them not scare them!! I was 7 when i started herping.... 3 months later had leopard gecko eggs cooking in a custon incubator i made AT 7 NO HELP! so Bully breeders you can stick it where the sun does not shine, Thank god for Guys like Frank that just want to help and he gets attacked for it.

Its like Arabs in Helmond Province everyone is like yaaya givee mee as in your rations we were helpful by nature within minutes are rations were gone passed out to the kids, 2 seconds later Rocks incominggg lol wack brocken nose thats what i got for giving my choc away, That is what some guys do here no morals..To me they take your info and spit it back in your face not very nice humans but some good herpers and thats all that counts on this forum we need INFOMATION without the Spit or rocks.

LOL Frank you got skunked?? Better than any after shave you have ever used work on the ladies? Happy Herping!

Sorry for upsetting you. But you have missed the whole point. You repeatedly make assumptions that have no proof. You claim you only want to help but instead of offering advise you bash the people who you disagree with. You counter dict yourself but will not admit it. You say this forum is about snakes but you forget that the snakes are not reading this, it is people, if you want to really help realize that you can only help the snakes by helping the people.

I am not upset, its just that your being argumentative and for no reason other then it makes you feel superior or worse, of some small value. your arquement has anything to do with the animal or understanding the animal, or about the health of the animal in question. I attempt to help the animal, and you want to act like your of some value, your argument is of no value. It worthless. I do hope your of more value in your life, then your silly argument.
My bet is, in person, I would look you in the eyes when I say this and you would look down at the ground. and shyly walk away. As this has nothing to do with hognose, husbandry or the understanding of nature, your worthless and now everyone knows it. Thanks for this opportunity. Best wishes and I do wish you health and happiness

Pat yourself on the back all you want but you are wrong. I would love to meet you face to face. I have posted noting I am ashamed of. You have field experience with hogs, I don't but I do have field experience. In fact I have had the opportunity to field herp with two different collage professors who do extensive herp studies. That does not make me anything but fortunate to have had the experience, but it makes me question anything that appears as an assumption.

Well your should be ashamed, as your replys have nothing to do with anything.

For instance, you keep going on about assumptions. Only theres a problem, your making assumptions about what you think are my assumptions, which makes your replys a real waste of time. Which is why I say your only being argumentative.

IT boils down to this, you can help or you can hinder. Your doing nothing in the help department. Your attempts are simply to hinder. I place this silly game with you because I am a fan of behavior and at some point, I would hope you would make a point or say something important. Please do that, say something important.

As far as I can tell, your saying, YOUR RIGHT, but your off by a percentage point. hahahahahahahahahahahaha When the reality is, we are all naïve about the ACTUAL needs of captive reptiles, by huge percentages. So if I can help someone gain a percentage or two, I am happy. To be off by a few, well, theres something the matter with you if you think behavior is totally accurate. Go to school, study more, learn what reality is. Cheers