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With all the changes in obsoletus ratsnake taxonomy over the years, I'm a bit confused as to what is the currently accepted nomenclature. From what I've seen, most people have accepted, for the most part, "Pantherophis" over "Elaphe" for the genus. But then some still cling to the old taxonomy of obsoletus with multiple subspecies. While others now split the subspecies (black, gray, texas, yellow) into geographic variations of just two species: allegenhiensis and obsoletus. Do I have that right? I've also seen a third, spiloides.

I'm confused What seems to be the most commonly accepted rule these days? It's hard to wrap my head around the idea that a "black" rat snake from Kansas is really a gray. Just seems like there isn't general agreement on this. Even the range map on the Ratsnake Foundation website looks similar to the one in Conant's Field Guide; the only really difference is replacing "Elaphe" with "Pantherophis".

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

This taxonomy change has affected everyone, and annoyed most everyone. Here are my *opinions*, since there is no internationally recognized consensus:

Pantherophis seems to be a better genus name for North American snakes. Don’t know why they differ so much from Asian & European rat snakes, but I accept the continent-defining difference.

When it comes to subspecies, however, most herpers are avoiding using generic Pantherophis terms to indicate snakes by *region*, rather than by *physical traits*. Most persons still use common names:

Pantherophis obsoletus obsoletus
Pantherophis obsoletus spiloides
Pantherophis lindheimeri
Pantherophis quadrivittus
Pantherophis spiloides
Pantherophis slowinski
Pantherophis emoryi

Until there is consensus on the 2002 taxonomy changes, two “camps” of thought will continue to exist, and Elaphe will still be commonly used as a term in North America

Hope that this helps.

Ameron
Portland/Vancouver

1.0 Elaphe schrencki (Anerythristic)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus (Miami phase)

Link

According to Burbrink and the SSAR.Pantherophis alleghaniensis (Holbrook, 1836) – eastern ratsnake
Pantherophis bairdi (Yarrow, 1880) – Baird's ratsnake
Pantherophis emoryi (Baird & Girard, 1853) – Great Plains ratsnake
Pantherophis gloydi (Conant, 1940) – eastern foxsnake
Pantherophis guttatus (Linnaeus, 1766) – red cornsnake
Pantherophis obsoletus (Say, 1823) – western ratsnake or Texas ratsnake
Pantherophis ramspotti Crother, White, Savage, Eckstut, Graham & Gardner, 2011 – western foxsnake
Pantherophis slowinskii (Burbrink, 2002) – Slowinski's cornsnake
Pantherophis spiloides (A.M.C. Duméril, Bibron & A.H.A. Duméril, 1854) – gray ratsnake or central ratsnake
Pantherophis vulpinus (Baird & Girard, 1853) – western foxsnake

Thanks. I have the Burbrink article. I guess I need to thoroughly read it. But I guess my point that not everyone adheres to it. And is alleghaniensis inclusive of what were formerly known as black and yellow rats? Which I guess would mean Everglades, Gulf Hammock and Deckert's ratsnakes would just be considered geographic variations of alleghaniensis? Which isn't a surprise as many authors considered them geographic variations or intergrades before Burbrink's article.

You are correct in your assessment with the exception of the gulf hammocks. They are in fact specific HYBRIDS, Midland ratsnake x eastern. Personally, I still refer to them privately as Elaphe o. ssp. The question that needs to be asked is how do the changes affect YOU? As most state and federal institutions have or will accept burbrink that makes the changes from a strictly herpetocultural stand point "valid". What must appear on the invoice or export manifest is the only concern as far as culture goes. Burbrink is a good thing in the sense that states that protect all native species will have no jurisdiction over the newly named specie,s that as of now no longer occur there. Weather or not you accept these changes personally is well, academic. And will not matter one iota what you think. The classification of reptiles, and all other forms of life on this planet will continue to be debated infinitum. Watch for the changes and try to keep up.

To everybody on this forum. While we are on this subject, what are some of your thoughts?

I understand the rationale behind “regional” naming schemes, and identifying former subspecies as merely variations of a known, variable species. (In general, there are too many naming schemes for plants & animals; many “subspecies” are merely variations of a species highly variable in appearance - like many snakes.

Here is the big “however”,

Based on my 25+ years researching reptiles, I feel that enough difference exists between subspecies of North American Rat snakes to recognize them as individual species. Yellows have distinct traits not usually duplicated by other; same with Everglades; most especially of Black, Gray & Texas snakes.

I vote for keeping subspecies status, with unique names, when traits are distinguishable:

Pantherophis obsoletus obsoletus
Pantherophis obsoletus spiloides
Pantherophis lindheimeri
Pantherophis quadrivittus
Pantherophis spiloides
Pantherophis slowinski
Pantherophis emoryi

Ameron
Portland/Vancouver

1.0 Elaphe schrencki (Anerythristic)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus (Miami phase)