Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Dear FR or anyone who mimics natural conditions for their Heterodon nascius

I seem to recall you, FR, saying before that you try to best match natural conditions for your hogs as they would have in the wild? I tried to look for the actual post to confirm it but I can't find it, granted there is a lot ha-ha. On the assumption that you did indeed say this, do you use natural substrate in replicating natural conditions or do you use aspen or something non-sand to be safe from all the bad reputation that sand has earned over the years? If you do use sand, is it store-bought (basically is there a brand that isn't going to cause respiration issues) or is it field-collected?

I field-collect substrate from a bald sand-hill for my Easterns and my male for the two and a half years he has been on it has never had any issues. My female is knew to it but she is exhibiting no problems yet either. Mind that they are both WC and my western hognose is CBB. Would it be safe to use the sand that I use for my easterns with my western? The sand is fine and passes through digestion of both my easterns with no issue when some sticks to their frogs and toads but it is still not too fine in that it will no create dust that name brand sand is infamous for in regards to respiratory infections with burrowing and ground-dwelling snakes.

He is currently on Aspen shavings. It's rather dry (while good from every care sheet I read) and if they get moist get mold easily if not caught quickly so I don't really like it. I am looking to try and set up a nice desert-scrub habitat look in its cage. I have had him on Aspen shavings for four years now, I'd just like to use sand/dirt if it would be safe.

Thanks for any advise

One of the groups of reptiles I worked on was varanids(still to some extent) With that group, I found they were very tied to soil type, in captivity and in nature. We should have already understood this as its in most old field guides, as I mentioned to you. I will skip a lot.

After testing different materials for a couple decades, I was apparent that in most cases, problems were not about soils, but were about people, again. There is a huge difference between most store bought materials and natural materials. In a nutshell, store bought sands are manufactured, sands are made by crushing rocks. Again in a nutshell, sand(silica) is glass or what glass is made from. So its simple to picture crushed sand is hard edged and abrasive. Natural sands are rounded and smooth. I use to build zoos and pumped many miles and miles of concrete, pumped concrete is often called shotcrete. When I worked in the west and concrete is made from natural sands, the concrete pumps had no problems and the values lasted for a very long time. Then I rebuilt Audubon park, in New Orleans and we had to use manufactured sand, That crap destroyed my machines. We had to replace the harden steel valves weekly.

So its fairly easy to see why some folks, caresheets, make claims that sand is bad. Crushed sand is bad, not natural sand.

natural sands, are not graded and sifted which means, they normally are a combination of sizes, one of which is called fines. When pumping concrete, fines are added to lubricate the sand particules and allow them to flow. In New Orleans, we had to add clay, which is super slick(carbon and fines) or my pumps simply plugged up.
So, graded, manufactured sands, indeed are hard to pass for reptiles and indeed can plug them up and kill them. End part 1

About Dust, manufactured sands are indeed full of fine silica dust, not good. Natural sands are not, the dust as long blown away. So yes, those care sheets are partly right. Man made sands suck as do most man made materials.
Back to sands and hognose. You and I are still on different sides of that fast flowing river of yours, your theorizing that your hogs do not live in sandy areas. Yet you find them hunting near the surface in not so sandy areas. You and I will be on the same side of the river when I toss you a rope and you understand that whats important for snakes(many reptiles) is not where they hunt, that's a fluid behavior. Its all about where then nest. That is where they live. Where they hunt is like a restaurant, they go there to feed and come back to where they live. Most reptiles have two distinct parts of their range, nesting, tight and restricted, and foraging(finding food) open and not so restrictive. Eastern and western hogs are perfect examples. The eastern seaboard has lots of amphibs and lots of species of amphibians. And a very limited number of lizard species. The west is the opposite, We have lots and lots of lizards and lots of species, and very few amphibs. Yet we have hognose, they are hognose with the exception of prey type, the western hogs must utilize a wider base of prey or they will not exist. So they utilize lizards, mammals, birds etc to a much greater extent then easterns. end part 2

TO my point hopefully, nesting and permanent shelters(ones they use for long periods) seem to be very similar in all hognose. It appears that nesting is a behavior that's not as fluid aa prey type. They tend to nest is sandy draining soils and tend to spend long periods of time in sandy draining soils. Something you should think about as a newbie field guy, where are the snakes that you do not see? An example is, a guess to the number of hogs per acre, on my site, evidence points to between 50 and 100. in the "good
(nesting)" habitat. Yet, when you hunting your area, how many do you see? one or two, wheres the rest. Consider, the east normally has higher numbers, more water you know. The rest are the majority and are what is important when you try to understand the snakes. The major division of snake and lizard species is, water table. Wet or high water table areas, drive reptiles up into trees(old dead trees are homes for many snake species. If you take milksnakes, they normally occur in draining soils like your sandy pine areas, yet utilize dead tree hollows in wetlands. Ratsnakes utilize tree hollows, wetlands or not. etc. You have an incredible opportunity to discover how hogs utilize harder wetter soils. I am going back to bed I am tired now. hahahahahahahahahahaha I hope I opened your eyes a bit. Have a great day, Oh, I use both natural materials and aspen, pine shavings etc. Lastly caresheets, its not that they are wrong, they are simplistic, naïve, mostly unnatural, and not about the animals, and often misleading. they are about minimalistic keeping of natural undomesticated animals. If your interested in the animals and it appears you are, look to nature. again have a great day

So basically the sand I use for my easterns is safe for my western then?

Also as far as hognose dispersion I believe you fully, I'm just talking locally. Fire suppression in many areas has ruined habitat and messed up our soil type. I have seen higher concentrations in drift fences on sand hills for sure but that is the next county over. With more water easterns may be more spread as well. In the west with less water as you implied the westerns may also have higher concentration based on less habitat available with proper hydration. That MIGHT be a factor involved.

Got some sand today at work and is all set-up. Hopefully I can keep it at the right consistency to allow burrows to hold. Its good now, just finished cleaning it and drying it for a few hours so is dry with just enough damp to hold it together.