Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My Western Hognose is doing this thing where he moves around on his side all the time. He does move on his belly too, but whenever I hold him, and occasionally in his cage, he tips onto his side when he moves. This is my first Hognose and I haven't been able to find answers anywhere else. I just want to make sure he's okay and I'm not missing signs of a sickness I should be taking care of, that's all.

From what it sounds like it isn't deliberate which seems odd to me. The only things I can think of if it is accidental turning on his side, then it would be nutritional or neural problems. Examples would be a hurt muscle or neurons not working properly.

I have seen wild easterns and southerns exhibit this behavior to some degree as a halfway between playing dead and not. My female eastern I have now never played dead but when I first found her she would roll onto just her side and start to move around then roll back upright after I stopped trying to get her to play dead. As your western is captive it may not be this, but also it may.

How long does the behavior last for when it occurs? This may provide more insight as to a more likely cause/reason for your snake's behavior.

I have never seen this behavior in captivity and only possible similar behavior in the wild. I have no idea how long the bouts last for or what it looks like while your snake engages in these periods of movement. My western has never shown this behavior of movement.

I held him for about 40 minutes earlier today and he did it almost every time he moved. It's kind of like he tips over, or loses his balance and ends up scooting around on his side instead of his belly. He was a tough eater but I've managed to feed him twice now. The store I bought him from told me he was eating f/t mouse pinks but when I brought him home he would eat. I went back and asked and they said that they had been force feeding him, so it might be a nutritional issue if he wasn't eating properly before, I guess.

I would want to agree with the playing dead thing, but he does it in his tank too. He just roams around on his side sometimes. I don't know if the fact that he only does it sometimes is good or not, though it seems better than if he were doing it all the time.

Technically he probably was eating properly, just not on what you wanted to feed him. While MOST westerns will convert or start right off on mice as they are not as picky as eastern and southern cousins, sometimes they require scenting and sometimes, although rarely from what I have heard, will refuse mice all together.

I have seen mine move on his side while eating in his cave from time to time, other times he just sits still. I just stick a rock against the cave and cage wall because as it turns out he is trying to pin the food down. Every hognose I have kept and currently keep are vigorous feeders that really lay into their food, I have never seen one just casually grab and eat like my corn snake will.

I am still a little confused as to the reason why your western has this behavior in his cage though. Do you or the pet store know if he was CBB? A WC may have more reason to exhibit a defensive behavior. One thing I just thought of to see if it is that he feels threatened is, while you snake does it, does he hiss or flatten out his neck at all? Mine has calmed down in recent months but while he was a younger snake he would get a little aggravated every time I came into my bed room.

And yes, nutrition could be a cause too. Although he may not willingly take pinks, this is a somewhat common occurrence in westerns, and very common in other hognose snakes in the Heterodon genus. It could be something that happened to the snake before you got it or after words, or perhaps during development in the egg or on the genetic level via mutation or cross over recombination. Note that every generation of every animal goes through gene mutations, just out of all the genes to choose from the actual chance of anything going wrong or even being noticed are very slim.

They had said he was eating fine when I asked and I just wish they had elaborated and told me the whole truth, but you're right. He probably was getting proper nutrition. I've gotten him to take pinks so that's fine.

He flattens out just a little but, maybe he is just feeling threatened. I hope that's all it is. Should I be worried that he's sick?

I am just putting out possibilities of behaviors that I see that usually involve either feeding in captivity or feeling threatened. I know that FR has much more experience with specifically Heterodon nascius as I only have one and can thereby only make so many observations. He keeps several from my understanding and also studies them in nature on a regular basis it seems so he may be able to identify it as something else. If you can post a link to a youtube video of the behavior that would help at least me a great deal in seeing what exactly the behavior is like.

I can't make a clear judgement of my thoughts on it without seeing it as you have expressed it to be an active behavior. Seeing it allows a more detailed understanding of what is actually going on than mere description when it comes to things such as this.

This is not a normal behavior at all, whether defensive or not. While hognose can do odd behaviors like playing dead, hooding like a cobra and hissing, or other odd behaviors, these are usually temporary and the snake will often resume acting normal which means being on it's belly whether it's moving or laying curled up.

If your hognose is constantly and consistently crawling on it's side, the chances are significant that it's a neurological problem with that snake. While this seems bad, it usually is more disturbing to witness than it can be debilitating for the snake itself. Also, neurological problems can either be genetic (which is more of an issue when breeding is considered) or simply birth defects, possibly from improper incubation temps or random gene defects associated with that particular animal.

I've witnessed several hognose that have such neurological problems, from side/back crawling to head wobbling/stargazing. I also have had several of these types of problem animals that were sent to me from irresponsible breeders and even hatched out a single clutch of my own of several individuals that exhibited such issues even though the parent animals had several different clutches and none of the other animals from those clutches exhibited such behaviors. So it's hard to say exactly what the chief cause of this is, at least some of the time.

If your hognose is active and eating regularly, then regardless of it's condition, it should live a fairly normal and healthy life.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

No offense, but animals such as you described, should be culled, at least from reproduction. As you said, you have no idea whether its genetic or not, then you breed them and normal non visibles resulted, so what happens to those who received those "possible hets" from you? You become the irresponsible breeder.

Please understand, without normal phenotypic pressures, natural culling cannot occur. ITs up to you the breeder to make sure "deleterious" genetics are not passed on.

Simply put, its your task to find out if its a medical problem, or a genetic one. If you do not know, its your responsibility to take action and cull that line. In a traditional sense or otherwise. I hope you did. Thanks

Oh, I know. I'm not planning on breeding this snake anyway. It seems like he's doing a little better now. I held him and he was alright, only on his side a little at the beginning of handling. He refused food the other day though, so I'm a little concerned. Hopefully all will turn out well. Thanks for the help everyone.

As mentioned, there are lots of could be's, could be disease, could be genetics, etc. But what is, its your snake and you want it to do well. So, I would have a vet look at it and go from there.
About feeding, missing a meal this time of year is normal. Particularly if its male. I hope it does well and gets back to a normal goofy hognose. Best wishes