Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, so I looked up Eastern Hogs on the DEEP site of my state...
and you get this.

http://www.ct.gov/deep/cwp/view.asp?a=2723&q=325832

But when you look up laws pertaining to animals, there is nothing about it.

http://www.ct.gov/deep/lib/deep/regulations/26/26-55-6.pdf

Does the thing on the DEEP site mean limited to ONE only, or ONE wild caught specimen from my state.
One would think if I had receipts proving purchase from another state, I could have multiple specimens.

I am confused here.

They quote Sec. 26-55-3-E
But I can't seem to find that anywhere.

I found it.
Stupid law...

Well, looks like I can't legally breed easterns.

http://www.ct.gov/deep/lib/deep/regulations/26/26-55-3.pdf

Yes you can, your girlfriend has one and you have one! You can talk her into it!

Category Four Wild Animal” means any wild animal or gamete thereof listed as
endangered, threatened, or of special concern pursuant to section 26-306 of the
Connecticut General Statutes;

I am assuming you need a permit for cat fours as well as all the others?

Any who, yes, if you know anyone else with one you each have the permit to own one. Just keep them in the same cage for breeding and then separate. Once you get eggs incubate them and release the babies.

And unfortunately that is how laws work, you can't even keep CBB specimens. Here in Florida you can not keep Eastern Indigo Snakes without special permitting that certifies they are being bred for re-establishment purposes or educational purposes. The reason behind this is there is no way to really tell accurately if any specimen that is healthy is WC or 10th generation CBB.

Ooooh...good call...

But then I still can't breed them.

Call and ask what your possibilities are, they don't bite.

yah, looks like you are restricted to just having one, maybe 2 if your girlfriend agrees. not sure i would try breeding. i read about a guy (in colorado?) a couple years back getting busted for westerns. there was a local law that allowed him to keep up to 10, if i remember correctly. when they bred, took him over the limit. i would be cautious on that part...

orangeheterodon, to my knowledge that information is not up to date or correct. i also live in florida. in 2010 the state of florida repealed the need for a state permit to keep easterns. they just uphold federal regulations now. so... you can legally have easterns if they are cb and you have the proper documentation. i was told this several years ago by the owner of the serpentatium. dale also got a pair a couple years ago and posted about it on the indigo forum. i was curious and spent a handful of hours on the phone tracking down the truth for myself... i would call fwc and they would usually say right off the bat, "it is illegal to own eastern indigos in florida" to which i would respond, "i have been told that florida repealed the regulations on a state level. please give me the current laws and send me a copy." then they would backtrack... "um..um.. well..." and then give me the number to someone else. my last call was to the federal agency in georgia that issues wildlife permits. she informed me that, "it does appear that florida did not enforce state laws on them. i need to adhere to federal laws, get an interstate transport permit, and have all my ducks in a row if i'm going to keep easterns in florida." she then emailed me a link for applying for a federal interstate transport permit. since then i have gotten married and my wife doesn't like large snakes at all! i'm going to try and work on her this year and see about getting a pair or red throats

Indigos are federally protected, as well as state regulated.

About the guy in Col. he was selling them and that was illegal.

For instance, I can keep hognose within the limits of hunting lic. But cannot sell them. If I produce offspring, I can gift them or kill them off. Its illegal to release them. I can also apply for a holding permit, if I want to keep them in excess of a hunting lic.

I know its hard sometimes to get the FACTs out of state agencies, If I were you, I would discuss this with a non game biologist of LE. As non enforcement is an individual choice and temporary. Which means, get it in writing.

I work as part of a privately owned and funded restoration project and part-time at an educational facility on the land. Every year Florida FWC officials come to check on the Eastern Indigo Snakes to make sure we have all of our paper work for them and to check that the owners that they are "on lend" from still have their permits. I don't know if this is just for public display purposes or not, but I like to get my answers from the people that enforce the laws. It may just be me but I really just do not want the hassle of digging up a law that state officials do not admit exists if I am accused of keeping an endangered animal without a permit.

Also, according to the numerous privately hired biologists I work with, they are still under federal and state protection and regulation.

End point: I would just go with the state FWC saying no (unless for reintroduction or education) to avoid the annoyance of them trying to fine me.

I spend a half hour of my life looking up the regulations for Fla Indigos and all I can say is. Good luck, as your states rules are a cluster frog.

While I did not want to waste such a beautiful day, and it is one here. The Fla. Indigo is a imperiled species. But makes no mention of seasons, bag limits, possession etc. It does for the Fla. Pine, very odd indeed. So I say, good luck.

Maybe I will try again later

i have a copy of the the letter sent to dale from angela williams of the florida fish and wildlife agency stating that florida no longer does i also spoke to her and about 5 other fwc agents on the phone.

that is old and outdated information my friend. people are stating info for how it used to be. feel free to file for an educational permit now and see what kind of response you get. it will be denied...

here is a quote from angela william's of the fwc letter...

"The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) Division of Habitat and Species Conservation, Species Conservation Planning Section has reviewed your application dated 11/28/2012 requesting authorization to possess an Eastern indigo snake under a Scientific Collecting permit. Your application requests authorization to take or incidentally take species that are protected by the USFWS Endangered Species Act (ESA). Previous rules required both a state [FWC] permit as well as a federal [USFWS] permit for ESA species occurring in Florida. According to newly revised Rule 68A- 27, Florida Administrative Code (F.A.C.), effective November 8, 2010, “… take of Federally designated Endangered and Threatened Species [does] not require a permit from the Commission[FWC] when authorized by [the federal agency] …” Hence, you are no longer required to obtain a state [FWC] permit from this office for any of the targeted ESA species. "

end point... some people are so afraid of what could be that they decide to never exercise there rights. many will also state hearsay. that is why i did my own research and found facts

P.s. personally, I will take facts over hearsay any day. Referring to the letter from Angelina at fwc. People can say whatever they believe to be true, but seeing it in writing and speaking with the ones that issue the permits is another ball game. Like I stated earlier, many people even in the fwc will state outdated info. That's why I asked for proof...

I actually heard the opposite from George at the serpentarium. He stated that the state stopped checking on his eastern indigos several years ago because they stopped issuing permits. That is what got me searching for facts....

What it reads like, is the state turned over regulation to the FWS. Which may mean, you can keep them, but not ship them out of state. My state has a blanket rule for bag limits. They have varying bag limits for species of special concern, from zero, to twenty. All other native reptiles not mentioned are 4 per lic.

Your state, got me. Good luck

First, that states that if you obtain a Federal permit, then your good to go, state wise.

Also these agencies are run by people. In most cases, they want to narrow down their work load, or the field load. To simply say no, eliminates 90% of those applying for permits. If your truly motivated, you will keep trying. Then they know your serious. In this case, its about the feds.

I would inquire what your rights are as a resident within a state where indigos are naturally occurring. In the past, FWS regulates interstate movement of protected animals. Not within a state. In state, is a state concern. If FWS does not have regulations against keeping a protected species and your state agency does not either. You may not need a permit of any kind, until you cross a state border. Good luck