Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I’m doing research on my Nelson’s milk home range. Edward W. Nelson, the namesake for this species, did field studies and collected specimens in ether jars for the U.S. Biological Survey department in the 1890s. Official records cite the these collection sites:

Acámbaro, Guanajuato, Mexico 1,880 meters / 6,170 feet
Colima, Colima, Mexico 550 meters / 1,504 feet
Neshpa River, Michoacán, Mexico 1,931 meters / 6,302 feet (Morelia region)
Isla Maria Madre, Nayarit, Mexico 616 meters / 2,021 feet (highest point)
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico 1,586 meters / 5,138 feet

Note that higher elevations of the Sierra Madre mountains get down to the 40s in at least 4 cooler months. Some locations freeze at times. So much for the “don’t let night time temperatures fall below 70 degrees” mentality so often quoted across most Internet care sheet sources! (Chortle!)

Years later, snakes were first collected and bred for the pet trade. With some species, this has been done mostly since the 1980s. Most reptiles species in the pet trade are bred from wild-caught stock from only a few locations, without diversity of total home range. (Some species represent animals from only a handful of gene pool sources, omitting a wide variety of specimens with different colors or patterns from many other locales.)

Do any breeders or experienced forum members know of any locations where Nelson’s Milk snakes were originally caught? Know of any breeders who know where their wild-caught stock came from?

Ameron
Portland/Vancouver

1.0 Boa constrictor imperator (Hog Island)
1.0 Lampropeltis triangulum nelsoni
1.0 Agrionemys horsfieldii kazakhstanica

http://westmextricolors.wix.com/west1

This site is awesome. Look under History and view the range map.

Basically, nelsoni occupy the west coast areas south of the more arid areas that sinaloae occupy to the north. Jalisco milks occupy the more montane areas inland. But it sure gets muddy in many areas - by muddy I mean there are intermediate animals. They "interbreed" in areas, because they do not know that we humans separate them into subspecies.

Jaliscos are adapted to cooler, higher areas. Nelsons are adapted for less montane regions but still more tropical compared to sinaloan range. Sinaloans can occupy area that get quite arid. Easy to make distinctions well into each of their ranges. But where they meet, good luck. Just guess like the early importers did.

Remember that story of the arcifera and the non-milksnake ruthveni kingsnake? Collectors in montane areas outside I think it was Lake Chapala found what they thought were arcifera, since they also occur near there. Turned out to be ruthveni. That is after they were in the hobby in collections sold as arcifera. They look so similar because they are adapted to the same environs. And those two have many more differences compared to nelsons vs sinaloan.

I have been to sinaloa as well, a few miles inland from the coastal hills. They have a wet season and a dry season. The soil was very reddish. And with the rocks I saw distributed around and the shadows made, a red/blk/wht snake would do well there.

I rarely get such "meat" when researching something as fine as a species home range. Thanks for providing the Steak, along with the Sizzle.

Some very neat info above. About all I can contribute is that the late Lloyd Lemke used to sell Nelson's Milks with the description as simply "real nelsoni from Colima". Thus at least one bloodline of captive nelsoni appears to have originated from Colima.
-----
www.hcu-tx.org/