Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I have a 6 year old female cali king she has had two past successful clutches with no problems, she was bred the end of February, and laid a clutch of nine eggs on the 15th of april. She still appears very large in the rear end, and I can feel eggs in the higher part of her body. I am worried she is egg bound, but she is eating and active, and seems fine. Is there a chance he may lay more(before putting her under any undue stress) or should I interfere?(I have heard warm baths and massage can help, or the vet?) Any advice would be appreciated.(picture is her last 'pregnancy' but she looks similar to this now)

IMO you should not stress her out by picking up , palpitating or doing anything else.. If she is retaining eggs and eating she should be fine. She will pass them eventually.

I have had some pass their eggs the next season.

Her eggs are not however.. she will lay slugs.

Thanks for the response, is it common for kings to lay the same clutch in two or more bouts? I have not had one do this...but I don't breed a lot of kings. And any signs to watch out for?
Thanks

Thanks for the response, is it common for kings to lay the same clutch in two or more bouts?

No! the second "retained" eggs can pass anytime.. in a week , a month, a year.. but when they do they will be duds. They were inside the female to long. So they will be infertile or dead.

Have you ever bred them again before they passed the retained eggs?
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Have you ever bred them again before they passed the retained eggs?

Yes I have.. One female in particular I rmember had like sold rock hard eggs in her for 3 years and passed them finally and then got gravid and had good clutches.

I used to panic and sometimes try to palpitate the eggs out of female.. But then som had the oviduct wrapped around the eggs and went to a vet and they use a spray to move the prolapsed oviduct aside.

All this is very stressful on the snakes and I just decided to leave them alone.. Most pass the eggs within a month.. I have one female now that layed two eggs and she retained the rest.. I will just leave her alone.

Now I know that the eggs cannot be saved.. so it would be unneccesery to try to palpitate them out. The process of palpitating is probably very painful to the snake and it takes a long time and patience to do (lots of constant pressure must be applied for a lomng time to get the eggs to move even an inch closer to the vent and it seess to hurt the snake).. I would not recommend a newbie ever try this because what will happen in most cases, the eggs are not expelled and the snake has gone through hell from someone trying to remove them unsuccessfully. What you have left then is a weakened animal that that is inflammed and might have passed the eggs on her own if she was not messed with.

Bottom line is don't try to palpitate the eggs out unless you are 100 perceent committed to getting that first egg out.. even then, If there is a layer of membrane blocking the eggs, then you have to give up anyway.

Nature sometimes runs its course and they are able to get them out on their own.

This is my experience at least. A good "snake vet" with experience is better but hard to find. Most vets will want to cut the snake open to remove the eggs. I would not trust a vet like this . God with one that is familiar with using the spray method or just leave the poor snake alone and be patient -which is my advice!

Thanks Rainer. That is very interesting. I've always been told they would probably die.
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Thanks Rainer. That is very interesting. I've always been told they would probably die.

The ones which retained eggs that I had always laid a few and then retained the rest.

Now these were Florida kings I am referring to.. I don't know how eggs retention is handles by other subspecies and species of snakes because I have not had any (that I can recall) that retained their eggs.

Yeah, there might be a big difference between Fl kings and Cal kings when it comes to that. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.
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Good to know, hopefully the same goes for cali's as far as passing the eggs on their own. I am just going to wait it out, she seems fine enough at the moment. Most of the information on the internet leads people to believe that its deadly and hopeless for the snake unless they go to a vet, so its nice to know that someone has different experience and success. But I find alot of misleading information on the net regarding snakes, so why I come here.

That is really interesting info. I've always heard it was almost certain death if the eggs didnt come out in a month or two. I've only ever experienced "egg binding" in a ball python and she had one egg in for about 9 months (kept eating and acting normal) before she died. There was no reptile vet in the town I was living at the time so I decided to take a look for myself after she died and there was a lot of thick yellowish pus/ mucus stuff around the egg... like a super bad infection that I had no idea was going on from the outside.

I've never heard of this spray method. Is it just a chemical spray that gets put into the body cavity to lubricate/ stimulate or what?

A solid reptile/snake vet can be hard to find. I had one that I trusted with doing fecal floats and dosing flagyl and simple things like that but he left town several months back. Now there is only one vet in my town that will even see a snake and he's a goof. I brought in a milk after a regurge and he said "snakes just vomit alot, mostly because they cant digest bones, there's nothing to worry about" and sent me on my way.(seriously) Ended up being a temp issue anyway... loose plug behind a stack of cages and that milk is doing great now.

I don't know what the clinical term is for the spray. But it is a tiny high pressure spray that can manipulate a oviduct that is encasing the egg. Keeping it from coming out.

BUT, this is very rare.

I just palpitated the snake I mentioned above this morning.. It took me about 2 minutes to get the eggs near the vent and when it was about 4 inches from the vent I kept a constant pressure for 2 whole minutes.. then I forced the egg down towards the vent and three came out. This one was exceptionally easy.

But a warning.. I have a lot of experience doing this.. So I really should not have posted this on the internet..What I am afraid will happen is the person trying this will severly stress out the snake and then give up.. OR!... hurt the snake from being overly forceful and breaking the spine ect.

What you are basically doing is surgery without cutting. It gets messy and can hust the snake if you force to much to soon.. Pateince is the game and even then some eggs are blocked by the oviduct. Most are not.. but it does happen and that is when the spray method is utilized by a EXPERIENCED HERP "COLUBRID" VET.

Sorry I did not reply sooner, my computer died and I lost the password,etc. Got a new computer. found the old password.

First, I have a lot of experience with Cal kings, been breeding them for fifty years.

What your describing my be she is just having a second clutch. As mentioned, if she is feeding, there is usually no problem. If those are stuck eggs, there may indeed be a problem, but not always. if an egg is stuck by the vent, that is problematic and can kill the animal quickly. If ovum is stick mid body, that may not be a problem as all and will be absorbed even as late as when they lay the next clutch. Ovum is unshelled(white calcium layer) and unfertilized. Fertilized eggs are another problem all together. there are many ways to remove or cause the passing of these "stuck" eggs. But experience is needed, so a vet is the best bet.
Why this happens has been mentioned, poor nesting, which leads to dehydration and associated infection, causing the eggs to stick to the walls of the oviduct. Or, when fertile good eggs are laid they absorb water and enlarge up to 30%, if the eggs are held to long , they enlarge and are problematic again. Proper nesting and good hydration is important.

Thanks for the advice!! This is my first experience with egg binding, so I am a newb in this department. I gave her two nest boxes this year, normally I only do one. And I left the water dish in as well, I don't agree with those who say remove it. She did the 'egg dance' (our reference to the activity prior to laying haha) about 5 days after prelay shed. I also kept her tank a little warmer...would this contribute to the egg binding? And what else can I do to prevent it? I fee really bad that she is in this position, and never want it to repeat if I can prevent it.
Thanks!

And you mentioned a second clutch...this really intrigues me, could you possible elaborate on that? How common is it and what are the signs?

Well there you have it folks.. a better break down on egg bound snakes.

Never thought the fertized and unfertilized makes a difference as most of mine I mentioned were unfertized eggs and not stuck near the vent.

So there are a few variables in this whole egg binding.

Good to have you here to explain the differences to us FR.

Snakekate,
Please read the posts below on proper nesting. Good nesting greatly reduces the chances of egg binding.

I would still giver her a large nest as described. Here is a formula I have used based on experienced users on this forum (this method has worked very well for my snakes):

> Fill a large deep plastic storage box with about 8-12 inches deep of nesting substrate. I use coir fiber (e.g. Eco-Earth) mixed with some sand. I use more coir than sand, so the mixture is still somewhat light-weight. Make sure it is not too wet, just barely moist - you can squeeze the coir to remove excess water. It holds burrows quite well. I have also used just sphagnum moss, it worked too.

> Place a large tile on top of the substrate in the center of the box.

> Put in a water bowl.

> Secure the box with the lid. I drill some air holes - I use a stepped drill bit. It cuts very nice holes (I do 3/16" or 1/4" dia), or use a cheap soldering iron to poke holes (outside, because the fumes are horrible).

Cal kings love it, even if the do lots of digging. So do sinaloans.

Too bad mods can't make it a sticky posts like on other forums.
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FR quote:
"Doing the same things over and over expecting to learn something else, is the definition of insanity"

Thanks markg, that's a great formula, I will refer to it for future boxes. This year I did a few things differently, and I wonder if that may be why too. I put two nest boxes, and I didn't use soil, like I have previously. I have in the past given kings different substrate to choose from, and they always choose the soil. But this year I could not find soil free of fertilizers and such.