Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been reading about a study involving Burmese pythons and how they almost always return to their home Territory or the location of their birth if moved. Recently, I had to move my collection out of my snake room because of a water issue. During the process of moving, one of my 2012 kings escaped via a busted lid. Because they were in my living room, a good ways from the snake room, and it was full of nooks to escape, I figured he was a goner. But me and my spouse had talked about the homing thing, and wondered if the snake would head back to the room of its birth. Not sure if its a coincidence(I think not) But 2 days later, the snake turned up in the snake room, where he was born. There was a million spots to vanish, yet he did not. Any thoughts on this? Do you guys think he homed back to the room, or was it just a random thing?

Birth place is very important to wild snakes. As are siblings. There is nothing random about snakes and their behavior. of course it could have been luck.

Over the decades of keeping reptiles, I have had many many many return to their cages. Consider for the past twenty some odd years, I have a reptile facility, which includes a building, indoor cages, outdoor cages and indoor outdoor cages. Of interest, its common for outdoor reptiles to return to their cages. As long as there is something for them in those cages, most importantly is a home shelter.

Wow! I have never thought about that. Topics like this are just another reason why I love this forum.
Not quite homing behavior, but I had a few kings escape and be found again. I had a w/c female escape and found that she'd climbed up onto the kitchen counter presumably to avoid the dog and cat roaming our house. Half a year later I found a young w/c male who'd escaped in exactly the same spot.

reako45

Its amazing the things about snakes that are coming out these days as people spend more time with the animal, rather than just breeding. I have been trying to find ways to prove they are smarter than most think, but they have a way about them that is not like any other critter. I really think he did return to his birth place for a good reason. Its intriguing too, because he did it in an environment he did not know, and returned to one he was familiar with. I used to call them a compass with one direction, maybe that is a little more true than I thought.

I think Its you make a point and miss the big picture. I agree, snakes often are interpided as not intelligent because they lack eyelids and limbs. Common widespread behaviors such as going cryptic(freezing in place and wait until danger passes) Often are not considered smart compared to a animal that runs. The problem with this is, going cryptic WORKS. Most mammal predators, have incredible eyesight, except up close, where they are nearly blind to still objects. Even monitors are blind up close. The point is, we base intelligence on outward physical movements. Like eyes, head movements etc.
About homing, snakes are no different then most other small animals, they live by scent trails. like mice or other rodents. If not interfered with, they move out, move back, move out farther, move back, only adding small amounts of unknown at a time. Why, easy enough, cause everything out there wants you dead. So only using using safe trails is normal. EVEN FOR US.

Intelligence can be invention, doing new. Snakes, are the other way, they practice old. They do what works and repeat it until they die. They are animals of routine. They are also matriarchal, that is, female driven. Its the females that establish prey sources, breeding and nesting sites, prey sources, etc. Males follow females. Ok, I like that part.hahahahahahahaha What they do is not complicated and mostly by design, Forked tongue, Jacobson organ. Scent glands, and a number of scale glands that all support repeating simple behaviors. part 1

Snakes are energy conservers, its their design and advantage. Over mammals, over most lizards, over birds and fish. They have the ability to lower their metabolism and energy usage rate, at all times. No legs is a key to understanding this.
That said, pair bonding, group bonding are all methods to conserve energy. Same mate, same place, same time, is far less expensive then having to discover new mates, new places, new food sources. They discover these things when energy rates are low, as neonates. Then routinely practice them as adults.
I wish you folks would think about the energy costs and the cost to safety, if these animals did not practice pair bonding and site fidelity. If they wandered around all the time, they would be DEAD. Yes, behavior does account for a certain part of the population to do that, and that part is impacted the most by predators, weather, and us. Those are called transients. The individuals that practice mate and site fidelity are called residents.
So Kate, My advise to you is, goggle up ethology, research that for a bit, and stop with the brain structure and find a way to study your wild snakes without interference, That folks is the hard part. Part 2

When working in the field. I am different then many, I set my own rules(hahahahahahahahahahaok,call it cheating) the first part is called discovery. Most field bio guys find an animal, site etc then proceed. Not me. Discovery to me is finding, FIRST the key elements of snakes lives. Which includes groups, nesting, etc. I must find that first, then proceed to learn the, Who why where and whens oh and hows. Its my "opinion" that 90% or more of field work is done on transients. Why, because they are easy to find.

Haha, snakes brains are fascinating, but I agree, they're behavior so much more. Because no matter what we learn of the brain, snakes will contradict it with they're behavior. Thats why they continue to fascinate me, because no matter what I learn, they themselves teach me soo much more. The only hard part, trying to wrap your own brain around it all! I rescued a wild eastern garter, and it has taught me so much just from observing it in a captive environment. I never realized just how different and smart garters are. They are like no other snake I have ever kept. Eventually I want to expand in garters. And I learn more and more as I observe them in they're natural habitats. I have looked up Melissa Armarillo and her concepts are stunning. Amazing perspective. I need to start documenting with more video and camera. Its hard when your frozen holding your breath and watching a snake that know someones near lol.

You do not have to be frozen. You have to be peaceful. They feel your fears and only see your eyes. eye contact is so important to them. You stare at them and it scares the peawater out of them. Look up Jane Goodalls work. Its not good to stare a chimp in the eyes, unless you want bad things to happen, To look away, indicates trust. This goes for most animals including snakes and lizards. ALso do not think about the animals your watching. Make it not important.
The work Melissa is doing, I have been doing since before she was born. What she did attempt to do, which far surpassed us, was, she attempted to fight the system and run it thru academia, She lost, but she got fairly far. The university mandated that she do bloodwork to id the animals, which was against the principle of, non interference. So they beat her into submission by holding back her masters until she did bloodwork.(as told to me by others) and attending a few of her talks.

So tell my again, how limited are snake brains? I can say, they do not manufacture cars or anything, but they do what they do far past our ability to comprehend. Seemingly, they social system is too complicated to fit our simple models. So we say, they are not social. That makes me laugh

I like how you mention they have an old way of intelligence, I believe that hit the nail on the head. I read a book about people passing memories onto the next generations, I think this applies strongly with snakes in an intellectual/instinctual sense. Their survival techniques have been perfected to suit them, and they pass those traits on to their young and the cycle continues. It would be like us being born with the ability to run, jump, speak, feed ourselves and socialize. Now that's an advancement!

Snakes are a balance of instinct, which guides learned behavior. Yes, they are born knowing what to eat. But how they learn the rest is what is completely lost in biology(that's changing now)

From 18 years on one field study, what we learned is to ask better questions, and those better questions are what your hinting at. The passing of learned knowledge. The problem is, current biology does not embrace any methods of study that will reveal that type of information.
A hint, field works was collect and preserve. As that slowed down, it became, pit tags and telemetry, both of which are totally invasive(behavior changing) when considering behavior.
Back to your question, Its our opinion, as there is not a method to prove, that scent bonding is the key to passing learned behavior. That is, as mentioned, neonates bond to the scent of the female, and eachother, like hatchlings of many many other types. When they hatch, they do not leave right away, they stay until after they shed, up to 10 days. Those ten days, is the time to bond. When they do leave they follow those scent trails left by the mother, to places of need. Like where to go in winter, summer, heavy rains, drought, etc. Where to go in breeding season etc. And follow eachothers scent trails. An example, I have routinely found sexual pairs of neonates hanging out together. Of many species.
wandering in nature is extremely dangerous and a huge energy expense. Those that fail to find established resources, are what we call transients. Or what I call them, gooners. They simply are gooning around waiting for death to settle on them.

Kate tell me about this above picture?

Oh, the reddish garter? That's the garter snake that I rescued. A very unusual looking snake, I have never seen one with this coloring, not in my area. The snake is kept in as natural as an environment that I can re create. I took it in a moment of snake curiosity, I find garters to be very entertaining for that reason, they are soo curious! I need to get some more of these, but from wild snakes. I want to see just how that curiosity works for them in they're own environment. I just need to find a spot i can observe uninterrupted and with out having to move. I need to get up to Narcisse soon, that's a goldmine.

Oh, and the other picture is Bobo, my first snake and the reason I am breeding. Hes the old male that doesn't do good with other snakes. The one that started it all. Quite the personality too. Thanks for all the info you've dropped, its fantastic stuff and gives me more reason to delve into the paradigm of snakes