Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I purchased a Mexican black king snake a few days ago and I'm having concerns/problems with heating the tank. He is not even a yearling about a foot long and I have a 20 gal. Tank and purchased a UTH. I know it's a bit big for him but I made it a little crammed so it can seem smaller for him. The heating pad is barely making the bedding warm ( I use Sani-chips) but the glass is burning hot. It burned my hand so you can understand my fear for the snake. I temporarily put a paper towel under the bedding just invade he decides to dig down I really don't want him to get hurt. But I know he can easily go under the paper towel. I put a thermometer at the bottom of the hot and it reads 73 degrees. I know it's not warm enough and I don't know what to do I don't care about the money I can spend whatever I want as long as he can live comfortably. Should I switch over the ceramic bulbs where there is no light but heats it up? Any suggestions will help please!! He is also about to shed and the humidity isn't doing my any justice either I spray often but it dries out. I'm starting to get stessed out from worry and rush home from work to check on him. Any advice helps thank you.

Stay away from any bulbs or overhead heating. It will just dry out the snake. Kings and especially neonates dehydrate very easily.

How is the snake feeding? Is he feeding every other day or every 3 days? Are you offering food?

You should be good with the untertank heating. We call it a hotspot. It is just a place the snake can choose to go to and get away from.

Only thing I am concerned with is the UTH under just one small portion of the unit? If not then you have the whole tank to hot.. Don't you think a snake would cook in the sun if it stays too long.. They know when it is too hot and when to move.

You want to make sure the snake has as many temperature gradient choices as possible..the larger the gradient from hot to cold is best. If you have a cold room and a large tank you could possibly get a very large gradient . The bigger the gradient (lets say 55F-100F) the better, The smaller the gradient (75-85)not as good for the snake. Point is as long as it can get warm and get cold you are allowing the snake the choices.

If you read the threads below you will see that the snakes mostly choose colder temps (50F) when they are not digesting a meal to conserve calories. Then when they eat they move to hot-wram, cool back to warm ect to choose the best temsp to properly diegest their bolus.

There is a lot of info in below threads. Read some of the recent threada in the past two weeks. Pay special attention to FR's posts. If you read that you will have your questions answered.
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FR quote:
"Doing the same things over and over expecting to learn something else, is the definition of insanity"

even if i put it at a set temp? I'm getting so many different opinions some people hate ugh some people hate bulbs. the ugh is really really hot under the bedding..
and i have read that they don't feel burns on them right away.

I just got him 2 days ago so I haven't fed him yet, my local pet shop told me not to feed him until after he sheds.

the uth is the zoomed 10-20 gallon size my tank is 20 gal. 30 inches long by 12 in. width. its barely covering 1/3 of the tank. my room is pretty cold it rarely gets hot in there so i guess thats good.

Hi,

Both uths and lights can be made to work. With the uth, what I recommend is plugging it into a dimmer (plug in, no wiring - Home Depot - $12.00) if it does not come with the ability to adjust the temp. Also, you may want to raise the tank an inch or so on blocks to allow air to flow beneath the tank and prevent a dangerous build up of heat. What Rainer said about burning your house down is no joke. Twice, in the distant past, I've had uth elements that were sandwiched directly between the cage and a wood surface start to burn. In the one instance, an antique, family heirloom dresser was ruined when the uth overheated and scarred the wood black and cracked the surface from the heat, the glass tank bottom also shattered. The second time, the plastic sweater box housing the snake melted and the plywood top of a home-made baby rack was charred black. In both instances, smoke detectors went off and the house had to be aired out. I was extremely lucky, many others have lost entire collections and homes.

Using lights requires you to limit the airflow within the cage by covering the majority of the screen. Otherwise the heat from the beam will rise and suck out all of the humid air. As I said, both can be made to work with a little modification. Good luck.

Will

:O that already scares me i feel like the bulbs are just safer and easier if set up and maintained correctly! thanks

First I agree with both Will and Bluerosy, Both methods can be made to work and work well.
Start by making sure the lid does not allow air to escape. Replace it or simply cover it with some plastic or something(anything) Both UTH and lites heat air, hot air raises drying out the cage. They can be measured by watching how fast the water bowl dries out. The evaporation that effects the water bowl effects the snake the same way and that is not good.

ALso Bluerosy mentioned a dimmer switch. If you go that route, buy a fan controller. Its also a dimmer, that has much much more control and allows a far better control. A normal dimmer, starts by wasting 20% of the capability of the heater, before you even lower it. Fan controllers do not.
About burning, that is caused from extremely poor husbandry. Its far more common with large massed species like boas and pythons. This occurs when the ambient temps are too low and there is a small hotspot that's very hot. The animal senses its body is COLD, not cool, and does not move off the heat. Therefore burning one or more areas. Kingsnakes under cool better then boas, and have less mass, so its not as common a problem. If you stay within the temps recommended, High fifties to 100F there should be no problems with burning. Kingsnakes are experts with regional heating. That is only heating up the part of the body that requires heat. Truth is, average room temps are great for ambient temps with kings, 68F to 78F in the summer, with a part of the cage, 1/4 or so, no higher then 100F. Best wishes

The heating pad is barely making the bedding warm ( I use Sani-chips) but the glass is burning hot

Be very careful with cheap heating pads. Espciallyt if the pad is between the glass and a wood table.. they catch fire and can burn your house down.
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FR quote:
"Doing the same things over and over expecting to learn something else, is the definition of insanity"

its zoomed uth and it came with the feet to put under the cage.

He is also about to shed and the humidity isn't doing my any justice either I spray often but it dries out

He is probably very dehydrated . Imagine if you were put in such a dry environment.. only difference snakes don't drink to hydrate..which makes them very different from us and dogs , cats ect.. which also measn your snake is most likely dehydrated and you just don't realize it.

. Put a small Tupperware box in the cage filled with moist orchid moss or sphagnum moss. The snake will most likey reside in there most of the time.

In nature they don't always drink.. they get their moisture from choosing humid conditions.

A snake does mainly 2 things..it always searches for the perfect humidity and perfect temperatures.

and again do some reading here on husbandry and ethology of kinsgnakes..it is not as simple as a "pet shop tank set-up" as the pet trade and TFH books you may have read or gotten advice from.
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FR quote:
"Doing the same things over and over expecting to learn something else, is the definition of insanity"

I have a hygrometer in there and i spray the bedding often to keep the humidity higher. after i spray it goes up to 50-60 then it goes back down to 30 after a few hours..an employee at my local pet shop was telling me "he's a desert snake anyone who tells you a humidity level 50-60 is good is stupid 30% is perfect for him even while he's shedding." I did my research and read that they need a humidity of 50-60 so i didnt take her advice. but Im going to get some moss tomorrow hopefully that works out.

You really should read the threads below this first.

This same issue and concerns were talked about no less than a few days ago and is just being repeated again.

A desert snake is no different from any other.. The person who told you it needs less humidty because it came from an arid region does not know much about snakes or husbandry.

First of all snakes are fosssorial most of their entire lives. So they are underground. In a desert area they will seek humidity levels far greater than that.

Also if you do read FR's posts here you will see that they move from humid to wet and constantly changing.. so what that means if put a humid box in the cage and offer it the choices of temps and humidity as much as possible..

there are a number of ways to do this. Just read more below of FR's post and try and absorb as much of that as possible.
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FR quote:
"Doing the same things over and over expecting to learn something else, is the definition of insanity"

I see, Im new here this was my first post so I'm trying to get to know the site and how this works hehe :x thanks for the help!!

You can add heat mass. That is, something that heats up slowly and cools slowly. It will absorb some of the heat and get rid of extremes. Ceramic tile works well for this. Above the heat pad and below the substrate.

Heat pads evaporate moisture every bit as much as lights. Heat pads dry objects touching them, lights dry out air.

I have found that ceramic heat emitters are the inbetween. They dry out air somewhat, and objects somewhat, but not as extreme as either heat pad or lights. Has to do with the way the heat energy is absorbed. A CHE couples with a large humid hide will give you a large heat gradient workable to the snake while reducing evaporation.

Of course you can stick with the heat pad. Reduce the thickness of the layer of sani-chips, reduce the ventilation, and for god's sake use a light dimmer or fan control (I agree with FR). Less ventilation coupled with less heat will be safer, and add the tile (heat mass).

The whole premise of kings using heat in the wild has to do with heat mass. They use the soil, burrows and in some cases rocks to adjust the amount of heat mass so they can warm up safely. They would not do well on just a heat pad and glass. Wood chips do provide some heat mass, but they also insulate, heating the glass. A better approach is a "semiconductor" like tile. Rack systems do not need tile because the shelves provide the "semiconducting". OK, rambling now.