Reptile & Amphibian Forums

had to go out and dig these out of the nest box this morning.
2 days after pre-lay shed. female looks great and ate within minutes of returning her to the rack.
This was her second clutch this year laid 41 days after the first. nest box is 8 to 10" deep (will go deeper soon) Currently sand, soil, mix. tub is setting on heat cable at one end. temps in the substrate range from 74 to 88. She laid the first clutch at the very bottom as far from heat as possible. 74 degrees when unearthed. This clutch was a few inches up from bottom and temp was 82 when unearthed.
It's kind of fun to dig them out!
Frank, you're a pain in the arse but so far I find that if I read between the lines and put "parts" of your theories to work that there are things we can still learn.

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Steve Perry
facebook.com/StevePerryReptiles

Thank you sir, and I don't mind being a pain in the hind end. As you have seen, parts does indeed work for hogs, they seem to be easy. The nesting I showed was good for hard to nest types as well. Please understand I go, more then, because most people will do less then. I have never had a person go larger, or hotter then I recommend. So I start with too large or too hot. Ok that's silly but true.
About the temps, it may be because of a heatpad or tape. Burrowing reptiles do not sense heat in one spot or like we do. They are looking for areas of constant temps. Heat tapes and pads, drop degrees quickly. that is, each inch away is a lower temp. They want a whole area to be a set temp.
I do not know why, but I do have guesses. I thing the surface transmits heat like a heat pad. They are looking to get areas below that level where temps vary so much. Ok, take the good parts of that and go.

Hi again, hmmmmmmmm you mentioned theories. They are not theories. Look it up. Theories are unproven ideas, etc. I have doing this deep nesting for almost 40 years, with many many species. So not a theory to me, just a theory to you. So please do not say franks theories. That indicates I did not do this. The truth, it never was a theory, I accidently stumbled on to this.

If you remember I stated the benefits right off. Nesting and dropping eggs right after shedding, maintaining great weight, individuals are not stressed and not requiring a recovery period, lowers the rate of egg binding to almost zero. hmmmmm unless the substrate is bone dry. etc. Again, congrats

Please understand that we have never met, I don't know you. I have seen so many come and go from these forums and so many that claim to be one thing or another only to later prove false.
Shortly after you came onto the scene here I did my homework. I have talked or emailed with many people in the reptile industry. Most well known and respected. Two common thing were said, "Damn, Frank is a real pain in the arse!!" LOL and # Two "You don't have to like Frank but realize that he has brought a lot to our industry." "he has had his failures and his extreme methods are not always totally correct but have given us many correct answers"
To this I give you credit, however in most of your recommendations you offer little to no physical proof, which I for one require before jumping in head first. For me, since little proof is offered, it is a theory until I or a large sample pool prove it. I will gladly add to the sample pool. I have seen a HUGE benefit to the deep nest box, however You will not find me preaching that it is the only way. IMO it is better, yes.
Overall, I respect your experience but don't blame me if I ask for some evidence.
Have a great day sir.
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Steve Perry
facebook.com/StevePerryReptiles

very logical, and please, I never ever mentioned the only way to anything, that is a recipe husbandry perception. You know, one way to do things. My life has been based on many or other ways to do things.
About your polling, I thank them for the kind words, but wonder who your talking too. As I can take a poll on any subject and come out with different results.
To be clear, talking to folks with less experience is a pain in the ARSE, for me and them. Its that way with all subjects and all peoples. But there are individuals, like you.
My quest is to have folks try the method and see for themselves. Which Gregg did, but Gregg had a head start, he also worked with varanids, where its mandatory, not a luxury.

The fella in Spain tried it and loved it, Gregg tried it and loved it, and now you. Now you should realize, the method is not about me. its about your hognose.
The fights here are not about methods, they are about people and perception. Most worry how they will be thought of. Like greater or lessor then. I never worried about how I was thought of, when it came to the welfare of animals. The welfare is about them.
This method is tried and proven with many many many species of reptiles, including hogs, but my bet is, you were not born yet. That was my surprise, folks here think its new, its not. or at least folks behave like they were not born yet(not aware of the past) pt 1

The problem seems to be rack systems that tend to migrate from small to smaller, which of course can be made to "work" but the one part that suffers the most is nesting. And of course not by all. Simply filling any rack system cage with substrate works, not a thing wrong with that.
Rack systems hinder learning, as you cannot watch the animals, which is key to learning. Even watching is a different learning experience then when you put cameras on them. They simply do more, when your not there. Talk about logical.
So, Gregg jumped on it, adapted it to his animals and setup then came up with his OWN version. perfect. Now you get to. feel free to add to it in any way you want and please call that method yours.
About me, When I was building zoo exhibits. some employees would whine, FR, its his way or the highway. Which is both right and wrong. The wrong part is, its not about my way, its about the right way. Mind you, lets say there are 50 ways to do it right and 50 ways to do it wrong. I only asked to pick one of the 50 right ways. If they picked one of the 50 wrong ways, they would get their bums fired. Consider, they were also allowed to put their own personal twist to it.
That Gregg picked a right way, you picked a right way, and that fella in Europe picked a right way, I am a happy person. And so are your hogs. And if that is a pain in the arse to understand, then surely I am your huckleberry. Congrats and run with it.

You mentioned that folks said I did this and that and had failures too. Do you what that last part is, Its self leveling. To keep everyone equal. If I say so so did good, I do not add, but he also sucks when washing his toilet. The question is, the good, to add the bad is to show personal intent.
But they are right, failure is what brings about change. Also having a realistic model. That model is in your cages. They are expert in what they do. In fact, they do not need you. In fact, we only hinder them.
I know of know where on earth, where wild hogs lay eggs on the surface, where their is lite, etc. Western and Mexican hogs are sandy soil specialists. There nesting preference is always sandy soil. Not Sphagnum. Try that next please. The hogs are the best model of all.

Nice clutch, congrats.

I have to ask, what's cooking inside? Is there a morph or two in them there eggs?

Female Dbl het Amel/platinum Hypo bred to sunglow (amelHypo) male. She was a poss dbl het last year who was proven het hypo. I would LOVE to NOT see any albinos in these clutches!!
I got this group as het albinos and would really like to get the albino out of the hypo for at least some of my collection.
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Steve Perry
facebook.com/StevePerryReptiles