Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

I've now been keeping my Easterns for about 15 months, and still have a couple of questions. Both (male and female/"unrelated" are 2011's. The female will eat mice and rats like there's no tomorrow, and she is impressively large. Not fat, but 5.5' and thick-bodied. The male will not touch mice/rats, and only eats chicks and chicken necks. He is quite smaller, both is length and girth. Probably nearing 5'. He was like this, though, when I got him (meaning not as large as she was/is). He still eats, just doesn't clear his plate everytime.

I guess my concern is if chicks/chicken necks are enough for him to reach his full size potential. I would through in some fish, but I don't know any good source for whole fish in Central PA.

The next time you feed him chicken, as soon as he finishes swallowing the chicken and is still in feed mode, pick up a dead rodent with your tongs and stick it in front of his face. He should still be in feed mode and will quickly eat the next food item. Before you try this, make sure he is good and hungry and has not fed for five or six days. I have done this to get a reluctant indigo to accept rodents.
You may also try smearing a piece of "grocery store" fish on a rodent. Get it good and fishy smelling, then offer to the indigo. I sometimes put the rodent into a box with a hole cut in the side. Seems to get them to start exploring and become interested in what is in the box!

The nutritional value of chicken necks is marginal indeed. The calcium to phosphorous ration leans too far on the calcium side due to the bone content. They have errantly been the staple of people with wild felines for many years, owing solely to the low cost!!! Bone and fat are not a diet for a creature so fine as an Indigo!

I've done some research, inspired by R. Bruce. One day chicks and quail are lacking in calcium. Chicken necks and other commercial fowl parts may often carry cryptosporidiosis, which can kill your lovely couperi.

I have a girl '12 who greatly prefers birds. At least every other meal, I squeeze in a rodent. I agree that heavily scenting the rodent with a bird works. In fact, since I cut the legs off my chicks for my '12 couperi, I merely lay a leg on top of a mouse, and offer it right after the rest of the bird is engulfed.

After the snakes are comfortable with tong-feeding, it's pretty easy to stuff a mouse in their mouth while they're stretching the muscles after swallowing a chick, too. Good thing, because my '12 girl is now about big enough for me to be able to stop cutting the legs off chicks....for which I'll be very grateful.

hawkfood.com/images/mdhf_nutritional_jul2012.pdf

Alan B

http://mikedupuyhawkfood.com/images/mdhf_nutritional_jul2012.pdf

Try this one

Thank you, Alan. That's very interesting - it certainly doesn't show chicks as being lacking in much of anything. I had read another study by a major zoological organization, indicating a chick diet was inadequate for birds of prey, due to calcium deficiencies.

I looked this up, after Robert Bruce had advised me that chicks and quail were not as nutritious as rodents. I did, at the time, also look up cryptosporidiosis, and what I read scared me enough to avoid older birds for feeding use.

I'm going to see if I can find the study I'd found before, regarding chicks vs. rodents as a diet. Meanwhile, many thanks for the input -- it seems to me that my snakes much prefer birds; when they initially refuse an offered rodent, they will IMMEDIATELY and ALWAYS take a day old quail....which begins the feeding session, after which I can stuff almost anything in their face.

Not the document I mentioned, but some interesting items, including the calcium thing:
http://books.google.com/books?id=n4sXQbXYPOAC&pg=PA150&lpg=PA150&dq=nutritional value chicks vs. rodents&source=bl&ots=pUBk4T-5le&sig=6KxWsPdXJc2Yxem5e3aiasI1-zE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FFEDVJWJBoPLgwSzv4CYAg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=nutritional value chicks vs. rodents&f=false

I'm pretty sure that a varied diet will be the best regimen, as it is in human beings. I can't quite bring myself to freeze WC garter, water and other snakes though, and I'm afraid of parasites from live fish, snakes, lizards. Then there's that cryptosporidiosis thing....