Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please stop the fighting, and try to understand, this is a husbandry forum for hognose.
As such, we discuss husbandry and hognose based on our own personal experience with hognose and husbandry based on our previous experience. Including our experience in the field.
This is not a scientific paper discussion board, where we cited papers and counter with other papers
Its also not a scientific writing site, that must meet the confines of peer review. We or you, do not have to Prove anything. To support our thoughts or ideas is great, but nothing needs to be proven.
Which also means, you or anyone, including me, do not have to believe, use, own or do, anything any others say. We all have the right to do and believe what we want. Including you. And including me.
We are each suppose to offer our own thoughts and ideas and results if any. And we do not have to agree or be the same. Discussion is all about having different viewpoints of the same subject. WE are all in the same group, hognose, but all have our own ideas. So how about offering your own ideas and pics and experience supporting what you do with hogs. I would enjoy that.
This attacking others reports is old and useless. Just think to yourself, you do not have to do anything you do not want or understand how to do.

What did you do copy and paste every post that others have made to you? I highly suggest that you read your own post and follow it long before you try and act like a morally superior compass.

But in the interests of hogs can you explain why you keep yours in these conditions when you of all people know how they should be kept and have no problem correcting everyone else?

This is easy to answer and I thank you for allowing me to bring it up again, and again and again.
I came here with a new interest in hognose, I explained I was interested in keeping them in some way other then a rack system and I asked if anyone had experience doing that. I also asked about natural materials like the type they occur in.
I received nearly no response to my questions.
I then set out keeping them in large cages, small cages, deep sand, aspen, pine shavings, rack type cages, temp choices, and and at set temps. I gathered that information and then designed the cage type I want to use. And as posted, I am building it NOW.
As mentioned one thousand times, My aim and my goals, are based on hognose I see in nature, my mentors, are the hogs I see in nature. Not Joe joe the neighborhood hognose breeder(no offense).
My goals are to enjoy my captives, as I enjoy wild hogs. And to enjoy watching them in captivity and have the ability to LEARN from them. Not simply a hognose in a box that has no ability to do anything hognose. Please look up, read and understand what GOALS means.A goal is a desired result a person or a system "envisions", plans and commits to achieve a personal or organizational desired end-point in some sort of assumed development.
I set goals and the picture you posted was a step in the development in achieving those goals. Even this cage is not the end result, its the first(that leads to more) cages that will express, what I want to see.(I in this sentence is important, as it has nothing to do with you) pt1.

This next sentence is very important. I do not know if what I do, will work, work better, work worse, express anything new(to me)(to others), or even be worth the effort. I do know, I am not afraid to try, or fail, or afraid to attempt something different, or go against naysayers like you. To me, you are no more then clutter. Here, folks have a choice, to help, get in the way or simply watch. Your choice to GET IN THE WAY, is all about you and your personal fears.
I am not afraid to express what I am doing BEFORE I receive successful results. Most here, do not post goals, they only post positive results. They are afraid of what folks think of them if they fail. I am not.
That YOU take steps and twist and turn them to disparage, Is all about you. That you keep attacking and attacking is all about you. That you twist the inbetween steps that help me achieve my goals as an attack on you is ALL ABOUT YOU. That if I do not agree with you or Me diverging from rack system mentality, as an attack on you or any of you, is all about YOU. That you think I cannot do many approaches like drawers or aspen And natural materials, IS ALL ABOUT YOU. That you keep attacking and attacking, is all about you and all about your extreme inferiority complex. You doing that is about your fearing I may just may come up with something nice. I mentioned a syndrome based on a lack of genital development. Is not actually about the size of your member, but acting like something unseen with others around you, is better then YOU. Guess what, this occurs in all walks of life with people.
The reason I say this is simple, In all reality, if I am wrong and what I am attempting to do, FAILs, all you have to do is wait and then say, SEE I told you so.
Also your actions of attacking my steps to my goals, tells me and all others, That your not very happy with yourself, your animals, your own ability and your own progress. If you were, you would not give a shat what I say or do.

Two posts of sniveling drivel and all you tried to do was attack me. You failed miserably because you know nothing about me FR.

Now lets look at a few things where you are wrong.

"Not simply a hognose in a box that has no ability to do anything hognose."
This is exactly how you are keeping them now and endlessly criticize others for doing the same. Shame on you FR.

"its the first(that leads to more) cages that will express, what I want to see."
How is that about the hogs? Why should they be forced to do what you want to see? Why not let them be hogs and do what they want to do and were designed to do? Why are you planning on torturing them to do what you want to see?

Nope, don't know you, don't want to know you. Do not care to know you. EVER.
This forum is not about you, its about anything you can contribute about hognose. Or even carry on a discussion about hognose. But you cannot do that.
I will carry on working with hognose, I will do what I think is best, and I will have fun. And all without knowing you or who you are.
About attacking you. I do question your knowledge, experience and reasons for keeping snakes and hognose in particular.
I could be the worse herper, keeper, cage builder in the world, but I would still be better then you. As all you care about I screwing with other people. How about just sharing what you do with hogs.


Now its your turn to share something about hognose of yours.

Better than me, I doubt that FR.

Btw how many hogs have you produced using those simple boxes that you call recipe set ups like everyone uses?

If your brains was gasoline, your couldn't power a pea ants motorcycle half way around a BB.

What does the amount of hogs one can produce have to do with any of this? I can keep my hogs in a shoe box with nuts and bolts as substrate and still produce a couple of hundred in a season. Not sure where you are trying to go with that question.

Hes running out of ways to disparage. He stays up nights trying to think of something. oddly, what will occur will occur, he cannot stop it and he fears that. What ever "that" is?
As they say, any post is better then no post on a dead forum.

How many egg bound females did you have this season and how many of those died on you?

I notice you've never answered it when asked by others.

I have had a total of 2 females go egg bound on me since I started using my nesting method. That was out of 25 to 30 or so females. One died because she actually had eggs rupture inside of her and the other female I aspirated and she was fine. Even went on to double clutch without an issue. The odd thing is that both females were way over 300 grams and the one that died never laid a clutch previously.

Not sure why you think I would have anything to hide. I am pretty straight forward and I even posted pictures and instructions on how to aspirate eggs to keep your egg bound females from becoming a formaldehyde filled paper weight on this forum a couple of months back. So, what was it you were trying to achieve with that question?

I do not recall a single person ever asking me this question before on this or any forum. If I had seen the question, I would have answered it.

Gregg, your not paying attention, and I don't blame you. Nasty makes this stuff up. He takes something said, and twists it, then makes accusations. He does so because he is under the belief, that accusations are owned by readers more then explanations. Which is true in debate. He takes words, parts sentences, then creates his own interpretations.
For instance. I never said I would never use racks, very much the opposite, I said I was part of their development. I said, I want to do something more for the hogs, and he takes it as, I can only do more and nothing else. Again a rationalization based on debate. Mainly winning a debate.
The point is, they want to WIN a debate, its not about hognose or husbandry. The more qualified you or I are(in their minds) the more they want to win.
Its not about what nasty does, or anyone or even what you and I do. Its all about winning a debate. If he feels he cannot win, he resorts to disparaging people. If he cannot prove, or show your wrong, he will call you names, to bring you down to his level, or the level he feels he's at. If that does not work, they go somewhere else and find someone they can take down.
What we are seeing here is human psychology and nothing to do with hognose, the hognose are a tool being used by nasty and a few others(sadly). Which I why they never post about their hognose, and talk about people this and that. In the end, what he(they) does will not harm me, hinder me, or change my interest in hognose. it only hurts others who are interested in hognose. In that, he/she is very inconsiderate. So please understand, its not about you or I, or what we said.

I think Nasicus asked very reasonable questions, indeed the questions that should be asked when people present opinions about husbandry.

According to the figures you have presented, it would appear that you still have some females egg binding.
Maybe before you changed your approach to nesting your figures were worse, but your present figures aren't spectacular.

While you have presented some interesting ideas, as much as Will and FR like to claim that all these things are long established facts that the "experts" have all proven, your suggestions still remain in the realm of theory and it would be nice if others were able to suggest alternative ideas without being jumped on.

Heres what is important. A person reports something to you, and I do not care who it is, Gregg, me, or anyone.
To you, what you read, is theory or whatever your currently saying, hypothesis etc, your right, it is, until you work with the method, whatever the method is.
With something applied, like husbandry, techniques require working(to apply, adjust, apply again, and adjust somemore) The method then produces results. You can keep adjusting and keep getting better results. How good the results are, depends on how well the method is applied. The reasons are simple. I do not care what method you use, if you let the substrate dry out, or spoil(leave crap in the high humidity) The snakes will not nest well. So all methods require proper maintenance.
One of the reasons I use larger boxes is because of that. I can mix up the substrate and its good for many weeks. So I never have to adjust it during the nesting period. Heck, the eggs could even hatch in there, Larger mass, the longer it stays within the good range.
In Greggs case, there could be many reasons, the simplest has already been explained, marginal nesting can effect future reproduction, such as oviduct scaring. So after that occurs, better nesting helps, but cannot cure previous problems. He could have females with previous problems.
Or, his cages are too small, and they need adjusting often and that is neglected. Again, I cannot tell you what his actual problem is, but its something we all went thru.
When you in particular, keep saying, its theory or hypothesis, it is to you. All you are doing is talking about a method. But not to Will, Gregg and I who have done it. In my case for decades. pt 1

Now I will talk for Will and I, if I may. We use this method for reptile species that with poor nesting FAIL completely. There its mandatory. With such species as cornsnakes. They are commonly produced, even in the early days, because they are very pliable. Which means, easy. heck wild cornsnakes live in old houses, how hard can that be. Other species do not use whats common to us. Hognose, do breed in shoebox setups because they too are pliable(easy) Recently, I took up hognose, and compared to varanids, they are really really easy. particularly nesting.
Which is a good thing. That means, you can test materials and conditions and not lose females.
So far, everyone who tried it after I brought it up to this forum, as liked "THEIR" results, please understand, they liked it compared to "their" previous results. And consider, there has not been time to do much adjusting.
The folks who tested deep nesting reported females depositing successful clutches quickly, and up to the night after the shed. Compared to previous methods where the females held eggs for much longer. To me, that's amazing, As none had to work on the method. I do find it hard to believe so many folks received such good egg laying times so quickly. But that's what was reported.pt2

At this time Caracal, you have beat the horse to death. You attack the keepers who are only trying to help you. And keep attacking and attacking. Caracal, we are only trying to help you. If you do not want help, then don't do it. At this point, all that's left is you do something.
What you posted looked as good as others have reported here. Its plenty deep and the nestings looked wonderful. So I do not see a problem. I think if your still having some females hold eggs a bit longer then others reported, you may want to adjust some parts of your method. Like use boxes where lite cannot penetrate to the substrate. Or keep your boxes in total darkness. Or adjust the materials. Eco earth, seems to work ok, but not great. Try different combinations, like 80% sand to eco earth. Which may be my next test. I have two females in pre nesting shed now. So I will again use, 50/50 like the first time, the female laid in three to five days. The other cage will be sand from exactly where that female came from. I may mix in some eco earth to keep in liter.(pure sand packs over time) Not sure yet, which I end up doing. But it will be today. If the sand feels good when I put it in the box, then that's what I will do.
So Caracal, stop with attacking folks who are only trying to help you, nothing good can come from that. You now live in a country where you do not have to do anything or believe anything you do not want to.(in some small way) Have a great day

Hi Caracal,

It looks like we have a communication problem in which you seem to think that we are presenting subjects that are in need of peer review for publication. Like you and nasicus are our "reviewing committee" or something. That is not the case, and it is not how these forums work. That method is also not the way that good husbandry info is spread. As TBrophy (I believe) mentioned below, herp husbandry has improved over the last 40-50 years largely through the passing of anecdotal info. The exceptions of course are the few good books out there in which authors like the Barkers, or deVosjoli or others collected anecdotal evidence from keepers who had good results and published them. I'm sorry, but it is just odd to me that you guys demand such levels of scrutiny, when simply reading the results of others and trying the method (or not) is how most of us who have been in this game for a while improved our husbandry. Have a great day.

Will

Hi Will, There are many possibilities, and what is true is not really important.
Nasty, only wants to hinder others, so he attacks(troll) and posts nothing about the subject of this forum.
Caracal, does post about what hes doing and that's wonderful.
But as you indicated neither one seems to understand what testing means. Or what applied husbandry means. Both want to talk in scientific jargon but both fail to grasp the concept of science. Methods of husbandry only have value if applied, properly(remember why theres lab classes). They only reveal results when applied. So in order for this to not be theory or academic, Caracal must apply the techniques in question and reveal his own results. But that's not what they seem to want.
Its about recipe(I am guessing here) they seem to want, something proven by consensus, and not by testing. which is how recipe methods work, and why they are so limiting. The reason is, consensus is to average, and average always reveals average.
In their discussions with me, they seem to want me to agree with them by making some persuasive argument. Which does not work with me. Not with applied technique. What will persuade me is ACTUAL RESULTS, by them, then by me.
Gregg, you and I, have actual results, and they think that's suppose to convince them. Its not, they need to test technique PROPERLY, in order to convince themselves Or as you say, not.
This has been mentioned about a million times, so the above is not the point. For sure with nasti, all he wants is to argue and disparage others. You know, over and over about how wrong a person is. Caracal is confusing, as he talks animals, then behaves like Nasti, name calling
If we were at the bar in Daytona, I would simply say, do it or not, now buy me a beer. Why would I say that. What they do or believe is not important to me, not nearly as important as the beer. It should be important to them. If not, that's ok too. So wheres the beer. Also, I do not drink much, and beer is not important either. Just fun to have a couple.

You're making this way too long winded.
Greg stated his results and they were no better than one achieves using shallow nest boxes, with regards to the issue of egg binding.
Results translate something from theory to fact. SIMPLE !!

I should have been more clear. Tge two females retained their eggs because i did not keep track of and maintain the conditions in the nest cage. From the outside, the looked fine. Upon closer inspection, it was clear that the soil conditions were not correct. It was my error that caused the egg binding in both females. So yes, you can screw up large, deep nesting too. And Jonny, I can quarantee you that people who use shallow nesting with sphagnum moss will have a much higher failure rate than 2 out of 30 females. I know you have not bred anything close to 30 females so I do not see how you can sit there and say my results are no better.

Now, how would you know that?
You're wrong!
Again, you make assumptions.

See Jonny, it is all about being in the loop. I can tell you 3 breeders who lost about 20 females between the 3 of them from egg binding.

And Jonny, I know for a fact you have not bred 30 female hognose snakes. I am not assuming. It is quite evident because you have not even produced 300 hogs in your 3 seasons of breeding them.

That you refuse to test it, is YOUR problem. You can simply go on doing what you do and be happy, and so will Gregg and so will I.
That you feel he or I needs to prove anything to you is WEIRD. Don't want to believe it, then don't. you don't want to try stuff, then don't.
I have a real question, Why do you have to be told what to do? that's a serious question. Can't, you try for yourself?
If someone told me of a better method, I would be investigating(testing) it before they finished the post.
The only thing we can do here is offer you reasons to try it, if you don't want to, then don't.
I do hope you find what your looking for, but to call folks liars and wrong because you do not understand something, is all about you.
I have seen stuff in your posts that I could easily make me believe your lying, but I don't say anything. Yet you make Gregg or I, out to be the bad guys. hahahahahahahahaha You not have to do or believe anything.

"You're making this way too long winded"

Hey buddy, you're the one who keeps this topic alive by disputing Frank and Gregg's results because they are not "proven" or "scientific" or some other nonsense. That's ok though, because it brings more attention to a topic that sorely needs attention. You are clearly a smart, although relatively inexperienced, dude who is doing very well with his hogs. The fact that you keep engaging people on this topic tells us that you are doing it for a personal reason, unrelated to the snakes. It seems to me that you are engaging Frank, a well known pioneer in the hobby, and Gregg, a well respected hog breeder, simply to make more of a name for yourself by taking on the "big boys". Which is fine, but a few things need to be addressed, first when you continually bring up supposed conversations with un-named, but well known breeders that allegedly dispute the results that are being shared, it draws credibility away from you, because without a named source, your secondary evidence is worthless. These are folks that choose not to report for themselves, and they don't want to be named, so who knows if they really exist.

Also, by continuing to attack Gregg, because he had two girls that became eggbound despite better nesting options is meaningless. This is because folks with experience beyond a few years know that bad nestings have a cumulative effect on females. Again, we know this because we've seen it. The fact that you haven't seen it is obvious, but your lack of experience doesn't take away from these realities.

Jonny, we can keep going, but the fact remains that you are going against this evidence, however anecdotal, because you don't want it to be true. However, our collective experiences prove that it is happening. Anyway, keep bringing it and we'll keep this conversation alive. Have a great night.

Will

Once again, just a bunch of empty claims and assumptions.
It's clear you guys think you know it all and there's not much point to this conversation.

Your acting like a child. Its not about "knowing it all" If I thought I know it all, I would not keep trying new things or going in the field. I do these things to learn.
You saying its about knowing it all, is again childish behavior.
Is this the problem Jonny, you want to be the one who knows it all? That's exactly how your acting.
is the problem, that I am here and your afraid you will lose your status? Well, you better get over that. As I am here to stay, I would love for you to share what your doing. As I am sharing what I am doing. And that's what its about.
You can always start your own facebook page, and keep every one out who you think knows it all.
So Jonny, shouldn't your eggs be hatching now?

Jonny,
I do not get you at all. How about explaining why you think that proper nesting is not important and why you think poor nesting does not cause any issues with egg laying females. Are you that desperate to have "something of your own"? Are you trying that hard to stand out in a crowed? I am just not getting it. I mean seriously, how much experience do you have with egg layers? I know from a conversation we had a while back that you were breeding or trying to breed boas before you got into hognose snakes. But how many species and individuals that are egg layers have you successfully bred and seen thrive in your collection?

"It's clear you guys think you know it all and there's not much point to this conversation."

No dude, that's part of the problem, its not about knowing anything. Its about discussing techniques that will improve longevity and reproductive success. That should be a good thing. The proof you require doesn't exist beyond the people that have had the courage to try these nesting techniques for themselves. You seem to demand that it be in a book or scientific journal to have value. Buddy, it doesn't work that way in this hobby, and it never has. The proof that has been given to you is based on experience, which, whether you believe it or not, is the only thing that matters. That they are willing to share their results with the folks on this board is generous in my opinion. However, some of you guys get your panties in a wad because they are upsetting the cute little arse patting contest that this forum used to be about.

I have no dog in this fight, other than seeing the husbandry of snakes I like, improved. I have seen the exact things they are reporting in kingsnakes, milksnakes, pythons, monitors and turtles. I have also seen the negative consequences of poor nesting in those same animals. In my opinion nesting complications have a cumulative effect on females. This year in fact, I set up a large nesting cage for colubrids. All females were placed in the cage prior to the pre-lay shed. In girls that have never suffered from poor nesting, resulting in eggs held too long, layed within 5 days of shedding. In females that have had past complications (held eggs too long), I saw depositions up to 15 days post shed, which resulted in female stress and egg mortality. That is my report, no more, no less. Believe or not, I don't care. But keep engaging us on this. It is good that it is being discussed as more people will test it and make up their own minds. Thanks.

Will

Buddy, the only people patting arses around here are you three.

Way to explain yourself Jonny. Can you please explain why you think that proper nesting is not all that important and why you think that poor nesting does not affect female or their eggs? Please, just keep it simple and to the point.

How many egg laying species have you successfully bred. How hany individual egg layers have you successfully bred. And what was the reproductive longevity?

You're not truly interested in other people's opinions, so I'm not going to bother.

I am truly interested and I find it funny how you are unwilling to answer a couple of simple questions that require very simple answers. Admitting that you do not have a ton of experience with egg layers is fine. What would be fine too is if you had a lot of experience with egg layers and shared your experience and what you have done.

These are simple questions Jonny. Simple questions, that at the very least, the answers will explain why you feel the way you do and why you think that large, secure nesting with many options is not important. If you bother to answer the simple questions, it might help to strengthen your opinion. So far you are just arguing with 3 people who have been doing this for a very long time (much longer than you) without actually sharing your experience.

Jonny, when you share your hognose stuff, the real stuff, that's wonderful. When you attack folks for social reasons, that's the opposite.
Jonny want whatever you think to be real, and whatever others that have done this for a very long time, to not be. That sir is odd and tells your story.
That you guys do not show anything with your animals, is the problem. All you have to do is show your wonderful results, and state how you received them. The rest takes care of itself.
The problem is, you show deep nesting, and show wonderful clutches. They fight others because they talk about proper nesting. Which is what your doing. To me, that makes it not about hognose and about you. You have not shown a single hatchling from any year. Why is that? or stated how many animals your working with. From your few posts, you have two females.
You should not "bother" the way you are. What you should do is share your hognose experience and tell others they are wrong. If they/we are wrong, show us the right way.

n/p

Jonny, showing a morph is not an answer. Anyone with a few bucks in their pocket can produce double, triple, and even quad visuals. I think you have the wrong idea of what this hobby was founded on and what it is really about. Showing a ghost or whatever is not impressive or a way to show your experience level. Again, anyone with a little extra cash can buy a couple of snakes and put them together. Hogs are some of rhe easiest snakes to get eggs from for a couple of seasons. I have in my collection what may be an entirely new morph, but what does that actually mean? It means nothing.

Admittedly, you have made some nice snakes in the 3 short seasons you have been breeding hogs, but that does not say much for your actual experience. I want to read some of your real experiences, not look at pics of morphs I have seen a bunch of times already.

You seem to have built your whole sense of self-worth on your ability to breed snakes relative to other people's.
Breeding snakes is easy - Get over yourself.

Jonny, I am making this about me. I know what my self worth is and I know what my experience is worth to some people. I agree, MOST snakes are easy to breed once you have offered them even sub-par conditions, however, there are many species that will do nothing if they are offered anything less than perfect conditions. Species in which you have never kept or bred. It is obvious from your statement that you have not worked wilth difficult species before. And when it comes to lizards like varanids, you will see nothing good in sub-par conditions. Even good conditions are not good enough for them. So please, share some actual experience.

Its not Gregg or I, and breeding snakes is very easy. Compared to many other species. And hogs are amongst the easiest. Its clear if you step outside of your personal box(falseprejudices). They can be bred in tiny plastic shoeboxes, by newbies. On the otherhand, how easy is that? to what result or degree or quality of keeping is a concern. Not the fact of simple breeding. Reproduction is the very minimum level of success, the bottom level. So why on earth do you think you should be equal to someone like Gregg.
What chaps my hide is, there is no way on earth that a person that's bred snakes for a short time, can be EQUAL to someone/anyone who has do the same thing for many times longer. We all continue to learn.
Whats odd is, you state, I believe this and I believe that. You make up rules, and then you believe your own rules. Which is great, but as someone who did the same thing, I made those same naïve rules when I was at your experience level, and after time and gained experience, no longer see those rules as valid.
So you think your rules are stronger better and more meaningful then Greggs, and he's done what your just starting to do for generations and many morphs and many years. Show some manner of respect sir. Your the rude one. Many of kids somehow thought they were smarter then their elders.
Heres the deal, I love what your doing, but I did those same things, before you were born(or close) So no offense, how can Gregg or I, be impressed with what your doing, when what your doing is Old hat? been there done that. I do say, good job and keep going. pt1

Jonny, your doing a good job, but please do not expect Gregg or I to backtrack and think or work in a way we both did, so many years ago. I would hope, I/we have continued to learn over the last fifty years, and I hope "you" will continue to learn in the next 40 years. Again, if you do learn, you may catch up. Sir, that is the reality. I really do not know how long you have been doing this, but you act like, make rules like, you just started.
You attempt to use scientific jargon, so heres one for you. When researching, the researcher must not prejudice the research. That is, go by or be influenced by, things like your rules. If I was your coach or teacher, the first thing I would tell you is, stop with the rule making. Its great that you think of those things, but you surely cannot expect others to agree with you. Yet, you fight tooth and claw, if we don't agree with you. If you want respect from old timers, you really cannot do normal been there done that, type of stuff. You have to come up with something new, not something old. And yes, its new to you, but your new. Its not about liking or respecting you, your just new. Get old, then get back to me. Consider, I spend my life with the likes of many great great keepers, so for you to come up with something new, well your going to have to work at it.

Get off the hognose forum and go back to breeding monitors.

I already told, that's not going to happen. So get over it. You sir, need to learn how to share this place. Because I am here to stay.
I already understand your attacks, you know, assumptions and prove it, are based on YOUR personal approach of how you work.
You know the very best way and well within the TOS of this forum, to surface the truth is, and its very scientific, its to ask questions, you know, to clarify what you do not understand.
Instead, you act like a child, you know, your assuming, and prove it, dude, get more creative then that. At least make it fun.
How to win is, SHOW YOUR CARDS. That will buy you some time. My cards are coming. hahahahahahahaha

"its to ask questions, you know, to clarify what you do not understand."

Then why do you freak out when you people question you?

You know like why you use rack systems and shallow plastic tupperware while you continually attack others for the same housing technique that you employ.

Try deep all of the time like me and stop torturing your hogs.

Nasicus,
I am not defending or anything here. Just going to tell you what is going on with Franks cage build incase you are unclear on what it is about. The type of caging he is building is something that will offer a large surface area for basking, feeding, and other surface activities and the draws on the bottom under the surface area will act as the deep area for thermo-regulating, maintaining hydration, nesting, and other under surface activities. I have seen this type of caging before and Troy has seen it as well at Bob Applegates place. In fact, I believe Troy has been kicking around with the idea of building something similar for a very long time now, before Frank made his post about it.

Nasicus, I can tell by your posts and I know for a fact from talking with Jonny that neither of you are stupid people. This arguing back and forth with Frank is stupid and will get you nowhere fast. I know why what Frank says to you hurts your feelings. I have been down this road with Frank many years ago. However, once I removed my ego from the situation, things became more clear. What Franks says is harsh to those of us with an inflated ego. I have a big ego, I have earned it, and it is fine to have one. You just need to learn to put it aside once in a while. In the big picture, is anything that Frank says to you going to keep you from wanting to keep reptiles or force you to change what you do? If the answer is no, why do you get so frustrated?

In my opinion, this has all just turned into a game. You and Jonny know if you address Frank, you will get a reaction it you know it will never turn out well. If you want positive reactions and posts, we should all keep this about hogs and not our egos. This goes for me, you, Frabk, Jonny, and anyone else.

In my opinion Gregg your post is exactly right. Its not about egos, You have shown to me, you have something to respect. So I respect you. You care, observe and adjust to the animals, I cannot ask for more. Its not even about massive or even successful results, Its about the animals. You pay attention to the animals. And of course, your doing great.
You mentioned you have two females have problems, others attacked you. I posted what could have happened before you did. Problems are not cause to attack anybody, its reason to find a fix or cure.
And surely we have similar and dissimilar opinions and experiences, but we can talk about them. In my mind, that does not take away from you or I. And we can have things we are sensitive about, you and your SIMs and me and nesting. We all can have that.
That some of the folks here make it about them, is indeed ego. You said, inflated ego, I am not so sure about that. Its more about protecting a fragile ego. Yours may have been inflated, as you have had so much success.
The rest I will put at the top. again