Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First of all, Gregg, I've said it before and I'll say it again:
I love the SIMS containers.

Although Gregg advised me to make holes in the containers, to avoid creating a vacuum and having the eggs implode, I don't make holes. I open the containers once every day or two, just to allow an exchange of air and because of the concern he expressed, I open from one corner, very slowly.

I keep my eggs in refrigerators (not operating), to help maintain stability if there are any large changes in temperature. I removed the doors, because I didn't like the clunking (maybe I'm just paranoid) and I lean mattresses against the doors, instead.

On that note, for those of you who get nervous about moving eggs:
Last year, I moved house and had to transfer 200+ eggs mid incubation. I drove with them a couple of miles at about 10 miles an hour, going through all stop signs, at about 3 in the morning. I wasn't sure how I'd explain that one to a cop
Fortunately, I didn't get stopped and the eggs were fine.

I prefer to maintain the temperature of the whole room, again, I feel it's more stable. I have to keep an ac and a heater going in the room, because the temps can fluctuate so dramatically where I live.

I maintain temps between 80 and 82 - I am having eggs hatch between 56 and 60 days, some going longer. I would imagine the top shelf is warmer than the bottom. If you look in the pic, you'll see the thermostat probe is located at the top. I worry more about them being too warm than too cold.

99% of my hognose eggs don't dimple, unlike other snakes I've bred, which would dimple up to several days in advance of hatching.
I don't know what others have experienced and I'd like some feedback.
It seems to me that the shell of the hognose egg is quite different in texture than that of many other snakes.

Yes, they are labeled, in case you're wondering.
And the books are just to secure the lids that didn't close as tightly - I hate those flies

Not saying this is the best way, just showing you how I do it.
I am having close to 100% successful hatch rate.
I don't say that to brag - it's all stuff that I've learned from others.

Jonny,
This is a good topic. Nice set up and thanks for liking tge SIM containers.

You are not using holes but are opening up the containers every day or so. That will keep pressure from building up and causing your eggs to pop. I add holes because I do not like to mess with eggs until they hatch so it is better for me to just add a few holes.

I notice all of my eggs dimple a few hours before they hatch but never more than that. I have also noticed that since using the SIM container that even species like pythons and other colubrids whos eggs normally dent days before hatching do not do so in the SIM container. They also start to dent only hours before hatching.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Hi guys, as an old timer, AGAIN. Its all about conditions. Eggs, do not have roots that absorb minerals, they indeed have a semi permeable layer, which allows the transfer of water.
In a study done at Dallas zoo, in the days of massive breeding interest, they worked on this subject. They found that under their conditions, eggs weighted the same at deposition as they did just before hatching. If those eggs absorbed too much water, it was shed before hatching(if conditions allowed).
In nature, eggs are normally somewhat caved in(dented) and there is good reason. In nature, there is a fair amount of temp fluctuation. Eggs absorb water based on temps.(ask about this is needed) So they have the ability to do so without popping if needed. I guess its easier to say, in nature, "normal" has a lower water level then in captivity. And that allows for more fluctuation of temps and internal fluid levels.
In captivity, allowing these type of eggs to "grow"(absorb water) is not actually beneficial and only limits the the eggs ability to use heat. Which leads to the debate about temps and egg health. Which when understood, its not the high temps that's a problem in captivity, its too much humidity AND high heat that stresses snake eggs. In the field, with shallow nesters, We commonly see hatching periods around a month from laying. With some in our outdoor ages taking 23 days.(colubrids) As a result of Dallas zoos work, I was instructed by Dave Barker, to build a room and toss them in the room and stop with all the horse poop. And he was right. I don't worry about temps, just give them larger mass and let it go. No need for sims, or this or that. But then, that takes away all the fun of needing this and that that you don't really need. No offense Gregg, SIMS are a wonderful product For helping those that do not understand amniote eggs. Which includes most keepers so its a very needed product.

No offense taken Frank. Everyone is entitled to their own methods. Just a quick question for you. I know the answer because John Adragna and myself have studied this extensively (if we have an incubation product we better know what we are offering. LOL).

What do you think the reasons are that we see better hatch rates, stronger more robust hatchlings, quicker hatch times, and ease of incubation?

This method has proven to be of great help when incubating notoriously hard to hatch species like Chuckwallas. In fact a very well known zoo has even done side by side studies using our SIM container vs the traditional methods and the SIM came out on top on all levels. I have the report if you are interested in reading it. I can email it to you.

I guess your going to have to tell me what those times were and such. I already have strong neonates etc. Not to fight with you.
When I moved to room incubation, and perlite in the 80's, we saw a real improvement.
Also in the past, I floated eggs, racked eggs above perlite, etc. And yes, your racks are nice.
The only problem I have is those stinky tiny flys. have a cure for them?
Forgive me, What those racks do incredibly well, is connect to peoples minds. You know like they are doing something good. For me, I spend too much time in the field and there they lay in dirt. No need for clear plastic, clean hospital settings. Dirt and millions upon millions are getting ready to hatch that way. So to me, that way is best.
Also, if your interested, in our outdoor cages. Monitor eggs did get submerged for many hours at a time and still hatch. Lacie eggs spent days and days in temps in the mid twenties and still hatched. Also local lizards do the same. We had native gecko eggs in a value box, it rained and the eggs were floating in there, and they hatched in that valve box. Its those conditions that interest me. In this, if you want to sell me something, then show me something. Otherwise, I am doing fine. But If I run into problems, I will keep them in mid.

"In captivity, allowing these type of eggs to "grow"(absorb water) is not actually beneficial and only limits the the eggs ability to use heat."

Once again you're making assumptions.

I just weighed some non-dimpled eggs at 57 days.
They weighed 7g - the same weight I got on my sample I weighed when they were laid.

"I was instructed by Dave Barker, to build a room and toss them in the room and stop with all the horse poop."

Not sure what that means.
Why would you build a room if they have no specific needs?
Why not build a house while you're at it?

We all know there's a range of conditions that snake eggs can handle. It's about putting in the effort and care to maximize success.
I went to another breeder's facility last year. to pick up some snakes (again, I won't mention his name, you'll have to deal with that).
His house was 72 degrees and he just "tossed" his eggs into his laundry room, on a shelf, in plastic sandwich boxes with vermiculite - the babies looked nice and healthy.
I've done similar things myself in the past - though not that cold.
BUT, there's nothing wrong with trying to maintain a stable environment to ensure success and with such a high success rate, I'll keep doing what I'm doing.
FR, it's easy to be a contrarian - and going on about how old and experienced you are doesn't substitute for captive HOGNOSE experience - neither does taking pics of them in situ.

Again your not using proper language. You say, I am assuming, which is stupid non sense. Let me see, having hatched reptile eggs over 50 some odd years, and hatching turtles, torts, lizards, varanids, many types of snakes. And testing this, its not an assumption.
Your English right? is so, maybe your not speaking OUR English.

Or reading correctly. Remember, your here now, so that is the English used. I said, its of no actual value. Some egg expansion is not harmful. But does limit the amount of heat eggs can use.
Again Caracal, TEST IT. Do I have to explain how to test it. If so, I will.
You keep saying to everyone else, they are assuming. To me, that is the biggest assumption made. If your unsure of why I said that, or what kind of tests I used, ASK. but you do not ask to clarify, you shout out, I have to say this, You think your smart. And do so, because you think quickly. Guess what, thinking quickly has nothing to do with being smart. Smart, is learning to listen to the whole explination, then asking about what you do not understand. Dude, test. Science is to TEST(question) your a grown up, right? then test if for god sakes. Are you helpless?

Your constant use of personal attacks ruins this forum.
Please go troll somewhere else !

yea right, that's an assumption. your wrong!

I have to agree after rereading many of your unwarranted name calling, argumentative and trolling posts.

Read this and take your own advice FR.

READ ME FR I DARE YOU TO...

Are you 8 years old or what. I dare you, what an idiot.

Interesting - the grass snake eggs dimpled a good week before.