Reptile & Amphibian Forums

blog.nature.org/science/2014/09/17/tracking-secret-snake-prairie-chippewa-hog-nosed/

When I read "fitted with radio transmitters" on snake ecology studies, I wonder what sort of long term impacts "fitting" the devices have. I believe they still cut into the body cavity of the snake to install the telemeters. At least that is how they used to do it. Don't know how this would impact behavior or (more importantly) survival.
Nonetheless, thanks for sharing the article.

The problem is, telemetry is simply a whole lot of fun. It surfaces the hunting instinct in researchers. So they mindlessly become believers of that method.
The problem is, if what they are doing is to study behavior(and that's what they are doing) they need to study the methods for studying behavior. Ethology is the science of animal behavior and it has rules of study. The very first and simplest rule is, do not interfere with behavior to study behavior. Which is normally totally dismissed with biologist. Its dismissed because they do not understand the options. Like, what else are we going to do.
As we know, humans are silly things, its all about A or Z. which is seen here. The problem is, A or Z is limiting and useless. If I were to do that study, I would start off by radio tagging a couple of mature males and following them to females, then set up a series of Deer stands and watch the area. That is both A and Z. Then adjust to what works. The problem is again about the researchers. They normally do not know or have experience with the animals, so they have no base to compare too. What ever they record is right, because they have nothing to compare it too. I do like telemetry studies, but I wish they would include a warning like Harley does, "If not done by Harley severe injury or death could occur". They need to add, this is what occurs when a snake is captured removed, having a severe medical procedure done, then immediately released and followed by big ugly predators. In that, they are indeed accurate. They bad they cannot tell what the snake is thinking."can anyone change the radio channel, this one is boring, or ouch, ouch, ouch ouch ouch, as the snake is crawling away. Or, man that is one horny human,(giant antennae sticking out it their heads) lets get our butts out of here.

"The problem is, if what they are doing is to study behavior(and that's what they are doing) they need to study the methods for studying behavior. Ethology is the science of animal behavior and it has rules of study. The very first and simplest rule is, do not interfere with behavior to study behavior. Which is normally totally dismissed with biologist. Its dismissed because they do not understand the options."

OMG FR, you're so full of BS. You can not make blanket statements like that. Most of these researchers have college degrees and take classes on how to do research studies. They are taught exactly what you are saying they do not know or understand about bahavioral studies. You once again do not know what you are talking about. Any and all reseach has its downfalls with the subject. Just the act of watching can change the behaviour wether you tag them or not.

"If I were to do that study, I would start off by radio tagging a couple of mature males and following them to females, then set up a series of Deer stands and watch the area."

Your method also changes the behavioural study. Your presence alone is enough to alter the results.

"The problem is again about the researchers. They normally do not know or have experience with the animals, so they have no base to compare too. What ever they record is right, because they have nothing to compare it too."

Thats more FR BS. Most do have a working knowledge of what they are studying. Thats why they are studying the finer details.

yea yea yea, so now I will go out and watch me some hogs. Why don't you read up on ethology then get back to me. Also read up on Mellissa Armarillo's work(and others). It turns out if you keep your hands off them, they do indeed behave differently then when fitted with transmitters. Just sayin.
Yea, I know, you would rather attack someone then actually think. To bad, you put a lot of effort into that attacking crap. I just wish you would be man enough to do it in person. But your not. Again too bad.

The video with the rattlesnakes leaving the den is really cool. I have got to wonder why they want to slide over each other that is really neat since they can go anywhere.

I have only seen one eastern diamondback rattlesnake once in my life and I would have never found it unless He moved I heard him through the leaves. He was alone but I always get that adrenaline rush of finding another.

Heres a thought for you David, you said it was alone, which is where the problem is. You have no idea it was alone. In most cases, others are very nearby, In many cases, you can follow them to others. The others could be with a few feet, slightly under cover, up in bushes or trees, etc. The point is, they are not alone, you only saw one of many.
If you think about it, their usable habitat is like a rubics cube, with the surface of the earth going thru the middle. Others are often one cube down, two cubes over. Two up, one over, etc. Yet they are very near each other and in constant contact with eachothers scent trails. The point is, like with Melissa's work, they live in colonies, in family groups within colonies and pairs within those groups. Theres those that are IN the group and others of the same species that are OUT of the group. Like with all other social animals.
In most cases, when I look at a species, I find them singlely, then as I learn what they do, I find them in pairs, then in big groups. On average, these groups are tightly together for half the year, and loosely together for the other half. But always in contact with members of the group by scent.

That is pretty deep Frank. Next time I will follow it and not just upset it for a picture.

Thanks, nice read, I was aware of that study. Still a "nice" read. The problem is the methods. Using telemetry indeed effects snake behavior. Normally it merely breaks up home ranges. That is, increases the area they use while running away from the researchers. With some species, there is massive effect, with hogs, I think hognose are the most tolerate of interference of the species I have worked with. They have the skunk mentality. You know, I have weapons(super stinky) So go ahead and pick me up, you will be sorry.
Oh my site, H.kennerlyi. also live in the higher areas and do work the marshs, particularly after they dry out, occasionally going in water. Thanks for posting

The hog playing dead has an axanthic belly, no orange or yellow, hmmmmmmmmmmm catch it.