Reptile & Amphibian Forums

has there been a Anerythristic, lacking red, western hognose? what what did it, or would it look like?
In other species, there are anery's, lacking red, and axanthics lacking yellow.
I understand, the "normal" western hog lacks both, red and yellow.
You explained to me a while back that Western Axanthics can brown out as they age and many do have brown, which cannot occur if a snake is missing both red and yellow. The individuals that brown out, are either anerys or axanthics, but not both. From what I have seen, most likely they are anerys.
There is reason for my curiosity. I have what appears to be an anery kennerlyi. I found it in the exact spot where a few days earlier we found a hatchling axanthic(possibly same clutch) I picked it up thinking it may be axanthic, but it has tiny bit of yellow on its lips and belly. But no brown to be found anywhere. Its now 240grams and its simply not normal. How would I prove this out. By breeding it to a true axanthic would not help would it? Any ideas? It also has a weird belly pattern. The belly pattern is normal, other then being narrow and only on the middle third of the ventrals.

"How would I prove this out. By breeding it to a true axanthic would not help would it? Any ideas?"

Breed it to a normal that way you're not mixing genes. It will make it easier to follow the genetic markers and outcomes. It is possible that some genes can affix themselves further compounding your outcomes before you have them figured out. I believe Kevin McCurley had this issue many years ago. Dig around and you can find his comments on it.

Or,

Simply send it to someone that knows what they are doing.

Actually you did offer some help, but I already decided what to do with that animal. I decided to bred it to a high yellow male. That way, if it is anery, it would make some interesting offspring.
who would you recommend I sent it too? not you that's for sure.
By the way, when starting with founders, you have no idea what is a normal. get it? or is that to advanced for you?

"By the way, when starting with founders, you have no idea what is a normal. get it? or is that to advanced for you?"

Yes FR I get the fact that you do not understand what normal is. Its not the founding stock. Man you really are slow on the uptake with genetics arent you?

I love how you post really dim witted comments like this and think you have the upper hand on knowledge. You're so amusing.

I asked you to explain it to me and your flat refuse, as if you do not know what your talking about.
Even thought I am dumb as a stone, I will be adding new genetic morphs to the hobby, while you sit around and DO NOTHING. "Dumb is as dumb does"
yes, someone as dumb as I, will actually contribute. Weird isn't it.

If it is Anery, it will make het anery babies, assuming it is recessive like MOST anery traits.

Frank, any projects you don't want to work with...I have offered to take a few. I still want a pair of those axanthic mexican hogs. I will pay shipping and everything.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

www.youtube.com/reptilenexus

And I am not sure why I bother to keep telling you/asking to work with your Anery stuff, because you keep not answering...
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

www.youtube.com/reptilenexus

As mentioned many times, I hatched three this year, those are spoken for, my son claimed a pair, the third goes to the person who got me started with hognose.
What happens next year will depend on what hatches out.
As you can imagine, I have received a whole lot of requests for gifts. Also as you can imagine, I will gift them to people I know and that have helped me, first. After that, time will tell.
The folks who I do not know personally, I do not respond too, as I do not have an answer for them.
So as of now, I am sorry, I have no answer for you.
My hope is, I find a close network of hog keepers who want to work together to develop lines of these wonderful animals. But then, that is in the future as well.

Well, saying "I don't personally know you, so I am going to have to decline" is much easier than ignoring the question, making the person angrier and angrier that you can't muster the 30 seconds it takes to say "No thanks".

See, now I know. Look how easy that was.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

www.youtube.com/reptilenexus

First there was no animals available. But if that's what you choose, thanks for asking.

Why does Frank even owe you an answer? To be quite honest, I would have ignored you as well. I am sure if he wanted to give you one, he would have offered it to you. If I were to give away something like that it would be to someone who I respected and knew would be able do the right thing with the animal. I would not just hand it over to some person I don't know who probably does not have a clue about hognose husbandry, breeding, and genetics.

Seriously, what is it with this really weird sense of entitlement. Why does this new generation of human feel that every owes them something? You want to be respected? You need to EARN it. You want a good name in this hobby? You need to EARN it. You want good information on how to properly take care of what you have? You need to EARN it. If you want a new morph to play around with, YOU NEED TO EARN IT!!!!

No one owes you anything. Do not expect anything unless you have put in the time, energy, and knowledge in.

The point I have is, I never said I had any available. I said, I will be giving some away. And I assume that would mean when some are available. hatching three, well my son took care of that, right off.
And your right, I am not going to give anything away because someone asked.
I think some folks do expect things. Like your saying, entitled. But simply put, I the giver have ZERO responsibility to respond, answer, or do anything that that is work for me. Shipping, boxes, etc are all work and I have no need for extra work. Genders, health, feeding etc are also not my responsibility, as they would be FREE.
In this case, bugging me is the best way to not get any. And only because all I can vision is being bugged by someone wanting this and that, for free.
I do have some debts to pay, like the fella who started me on this journey. He will get the first ones excessed. etc etc.
But if I hatch 50, then I would be begging Kingofspades to take some. But I hope to not produce that many.
Gregg, I will take a few pics of two odd females, and you could give me your opinion on them. Maybe later today if I have time. Thanks.

I apologize. I only asked because I was interested in the project. I was unaware that you didn't have any available, or that you had other people in mind.
All I read was that you might gift a few and thought "Hey, maybe I could get in on a cool project."

Misunderstanding.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

www.youtube.com/reptilenexus

no problem. Wish me luck for next year.

Good luck.
I'd like to see some of those funky looking yellowish Mexican hogs prove out too. Those are interesting as well.
Wish I had access to wild stock...but I'm in CT.
We have limited numbers of Eastern hogs, and are limited to one specimen...so not worth it to me.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

www.youtube.com/reptilenexus

I like to think I actually do have a decent reputation in the reptile world, and I spend a big chunk of my free time researching and reading as much as I can about hogs.
Especially on your Facebook group, where I go by Reptile Nexus.
Yes, I am still relatively new to Hogs, but I am doing my best to learn more about them and how to take care of them better.
I even switched to deep bedding because of YOUR posts on Facebook Gregg.

When I have a question, I ask people who know more, and I take that information and use it.

Frank mentioned he would gift people baby axanthics. I was unaware he didn't have any to gift, so I asked. Didn't realize it was a mortal offense to be interested in a project.

Sorry I expected a little common decency in the form of a simple "No" or "I don't have any."
It wasn't out of entitlement, it was out of interest in a project that I think is cool.
But oops, I forgot, you guys are WAY ABOVE the other peon breeders.

Apparently decency in this hobby is no longer a thing.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

www.youtube.com/reptilenexus

"Sorry I expected a little common decency in the form of a simple "No" or "I don't have any."

You have to remember who and what you're dealing with. No one has ever paired the words common decency with FR.

Hey Frank.
There has never been an actual anerythristic proven in Westerns. Axanthics can be anerythristic but anerythristics can never be axanthics. Xanthiphores control both yellow and red pigmentation. So axanthics can be missing both yellow and red. Anerythristics would only be missing red. So if a hog was truly anery, it would be just yellow where orange color would be, not white.

As far as them browning out as they age, it seems to only happen on the dorsal. The bellies still remain black and white. It is also only the background color that gets a brownish tinge. I do not think that is happening because of actual pigmentation though. It could just be the way the eye sees it. Scales are larger so they may refract light differently. That is just my personal theory. Obviously not scientifically proven. LOL

Hope this helps.

Also, not all axanthics brown out. A lot of them do keep that silvery tone.