Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My adult male looks so much like a Brooksi that I questioned the veracity of the dealer from whom I bought him. He confirmed a captive bred & rescued animal, but won’t name the original breeder nor his location.

Mine is a Speckled, but he is so light in color, banded and straw-like in appearance, that I wonder if his parent stock is from the western edge of their range on the Great Plains or the edge of them, where typical greenish & dark colors fade to become more light to match the surrounding prairie grasses.

I’ve done extensive online research of images to try to match his color & light banding pattern, but only specimens from CO, KS & OK come close to him – with honorable mentions from the Ouachita Mountains area. (He is not so much green in base color as he is mossy brown.) He more closely resembles juvenile photos with their banding pattern than he resembles most adult photoss (except Brooks adults).

I know that captive-bred animals are a mix, and can reflect various colors or patterns, but mine is so unique that I feel that very strong locale-specific genes are dominating his appearance, and I’m curious about the region where wild snakes most resemble him.

Field herpers, if you would share your County-specific or State-specific photos of staw-colored & banded snakes which you’ve seen, I’d be very grateful.

Ameron
Portland, OR

1.0 Lampropeltis getula holbooki
1.0 Lampropeltis triangulum sinaloae x hondurensis
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus (Tallahassee area colors & patterns)
1.0 Agrionemys horsfieldii kazakhstanica

Photobucket link with photos of him is at the bottom.
Link

Its a fla king, you've been had. And no offense, it looks W/C Hopefully there will be some advice from some of the Fla. folks here. Best wishes

I recall you from MANY years back. You still in the Prescott area? Still confounding average Herpers with your field herping experience that spans decades?

Florida King? I thought so, too, for a long time, but I don't agree. One main hallmark of FL Kings is the orange or red traces. Mine has none. Plus, I have seen Speckleds which are similar in appearance. (You know how variable Kings can be, even in a given locale.)

Dealer from whom I bought him is well established in the area, and he said that he knows & trusts the Original Breeder who sold the snake as a Speckled.

I have Brian Hubbs' Common Kingnskakes book, so I can refer again to each species sections for more guidance, but what SPECIFIC traits shall I look for to verify

I'am from Tucson, Az. Anyway, I also lived in Fla. and they do not have to have red traces or any red at all. Some do, mainly neonates.
Remember, all I have to go by is your pictures, which are not very good. But, from your pics, that is a Fla. king.
Heres the deal, when working with snakes, the first thing you do is take PEOPLE out of it. It doesn't matter who you got it from, or what breeder it was. That is not the point. The point is, what is that snake. All your doing is prejudicing yourself.
Having seen lots of holbrooki, Dang if I lived in their range too. Holbrooki have totally different head markings and even shape. The body markings on your snake is text book, wild Fla. king. But hey, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
As I mentioned, it would be great If others would help out. How about finding Hubbs and asking him.
Or Bluerosy? Best wishes

I will do more research, and will plan to get more photos, including some of head & belly, and post them in a later post.

You are ABSOLUTELY right - it does not matter what people say nor perceive. It only matters what is true - and whether or not you understand the truth.

Since you have lived in the home range of both, and have seen specimens of both, I add more weight to your options expressed here.

I've always thought that he looked Floridana or Booksi, too.

(Thought that you lived in Prescott from some post long ago, but you may have been detailing a herp trip in that area. Don't know, doesn't matter. I've been to Tucson, LOVED the area for many reasons. Can hardly wait until Sabino Canyon grows back the lost vegetation.)

Cheers!

Hi Ameron,
Awhile back I was looking into some speckled kings, and I did get 1 of them so far. Great kings! Luckily I found some breeders with speckleds from different localities, so I was able to see some variation. While the "DPI" of speckles and the intensity of yellow will surely differ across the range, in no way did any of them resemble a Florida king close enough for me to question it. Some speckled kings can resemble desert kings (spendida). But, speckled kings look sufficiently different from Florida kings. The differences are readily apparent in hatchlings and adults. Inbetween, they still look different to me. Head shape, girth, pattern - sufficiently different.

FR was right in his first reply, I had "been had". I trusted the word of a local "reptile expert", despite thinking from the beginning, "It looks like a Brooks". (At the time, I had no reference for normal floridana colors & patterns.)

Now that I've done further research, I've matched specimens most closely matching his colors & patterns to the region just south of Lake Okeechobee, in Hendry & Palm Beach Counties.

I hope to get some photos soon, when I can stage the right light & setting. Thanks for your feedback.

Well, Florida kings are great pets. May not be what you set out for, but still a nice kingsnake for a pet. Most floridas settle down to be more tame than just about any other getula king.

Why do you think he's wild-caught?

Just curious. I'm not even sure of his age, only that the dealer from whom I got him was misinformed.

Are collections still being done in large numbers in the Canals area? What visual or other traits suggested wild-caught? His behavior does not suggest wild-caught, but it's certainly possible.

More of your (highly valuable) insight, please.

That sir is a guess, as it has the look of a wild caught, its rare for a wild caught to look captive hatched, but it does occur.
Its about the shape of the body and the color. Wild caught snakes tend to be more Athletic, less rounded. Also wild caught snakes tend to have a "tan" so to speak. They have a dark cast that does shed off after a couple sheds.
Also, that color and pattern can and does occur from central Fla south. Its not what was called the canal "brooks" of the old days. Its more of a normal southern Fla. phenotype. Those super lite Brooks were more of a natural occurring hypo. I hear they are no longer found there.
One needs to remember that getula is polymorphic. And all locals have a fairly wide range of normal phenotypes. Both in color and pattern.
Kingsnakes are indeed variable. And its rare to say by color and pattern, the exact local and be accurate. You can say, that color and pattern is common in one area and rare in another.
I hope the above allows you to understand that the animal you have "could" have been found over a fairly large area. In the field, you find and snake and you can say, THIS IS FROM HERE. Once that information is lost. Well, its lost. Happy Holidays

You made some good points, defended by logic, reason & specific examples. I greatly value your insight, and learned something from this exchange of words. You are absolutely right: He or his ancestors could have been from many regions, not just from the Canals area.

I will always wonder if he's wild-caught. From what I've read, the practice of collecting in the Canals area continued at least until the late 1990s - and may have continued until today. Also, with Florida Kings, I'm not sure how commonly they are now captive-bred. Most found in the pet trade may still be wild-caught.

I've only had mine for a month, and I'm surprised at how he does NOT jerk nor flinch when I touch him when he's out of his vivarium exercising, or when I pick him up. In regular handling, he's less skittish than most Kings, and much less so than most Milks.

However, his feeding response is legendary. When he's hungry, he's not trustworthy. So far, he has nipped at both feet, and yesterday he tried to swallow my thumb. (Showing no signs of aggression all the while.)

He's an interesting character, and I'm enjoying the travels upon the Road of Adventure & Learning. It was fun chatting with you for part of the journey.

Until next time...