Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We(family affair)would appreciate any thoughts from some experts. I may give more info than needed or not enough so please bear with me.
We have 3 pair that were brumated for 7 weeks at temps in the high 40's to low 50's. The females are an anaconda het albino an albino and a 100% het snow that all range from 270-300g in that order. All have matching males at about 80g.
The albino couple and het snow couple have eaten 5 meals each in the 3 weeks since they were taken out but the anaconda female has not eaten at all and her male counterpart has only eaten once. No females have shed. We decided not to wait any longer and put them together anyway.
They all have access to 90 degrees down to mid 70's. We took each pair from the containers with substrate to clean containers with the same heating (90-70's) for two days and have seen tons of rubbin but no locks have been witnessed. The males seem way more interested than the females (sounds like humans). We are going to separate them to feed tonight, but then what? Try again? When and what parameters? Any thoughts are appreciated.

LOCK...I will still listen to any thoughts but about a half hour after original post we got a lock on the Anacondas. This is the female that hasn't even eaten. Go figure. Thx

Its not unheard of for hogs to not want to eat until they have copulated. I am at the point where I pair my snakes up as soon as they are taken from brumation temps. I have seen more successful locks with snakes that have not eaten right out of brumation so that's what I stick with.

Thanks Gregg. We have read so much over the 5 yrs we have had our hogs and the consensus is to feed and have a shed before introducing. Well, that's out the window after what we witnessed today. One more thing, they were locked up for 5 hrs the little guy has to be tired. Should we separate them and feed immediately or leave them together another night/day and look for a second lock?
Thanks, John

Different species have different copulation times. Montane kings, aprox 15 minutes, Cal kings, 3 or 4 hours, Crotes, 24 hours(up to) and my hogs, both kennerlyi and westerns, are what you mentioned. 4 or 5 hours. All times are aprox and average.
So far this year, my hogs are copulating right out of cooling and before feeding. Again, both westerns and kennerlyi. I mostly have kennerlyi.
Good to hear that is normal.
I mention the above times because, there is normally reason for long copulation times. In appears to be biological. Some species form Cloacal plugs after a successful copulation. Some species have induced ovulation, This is also a product of courting.(plus male pheromones). So I leave the pairs together for a few days. Most species I keep are not separated ever. I plan on attempting this with hogs but those cages are not ready yet. Got the glass yesterday, so its getting close. The first one is actually a prototype cage for some cages I am doing for the Chiricahua Desert Museum. Google up the images, you will see some of the cages I have already done there. And a hognose too, they are fairly common right on the grounds of the museum. In the parking lot, in the outside enclosures etc. And across the street, hahahahahahaha. Anyway, not sure about them getting tired, that never seems to be the case. Best of luck

Thanks for that info and we took a look at the website. Those enclosures look great. Do you feed them in the same cage after copulation? I thought this was a no-no.
John

The problem with information these days is, anybody can write anything. So finding what is real and what is not is problematic.
Many things like what you read, are real to someone, I guess, but its not actually about the animals. In my opinion, that type of information is what I call RECIPE or caresheet, information. In most cases, it does not have context.
I have no problem keeping them in pairs, or groups, or raising babies together. Wait, there is a problem. But its not about the hognose, its about us. Hogs are messy snakes, so if you keep them in small cages, a group will mess up the cage OFTEN. But if the cage is larger, then its not a problem. In our cages, we sort of fixed the messy cage part by using sand(from where they came from, at this time) as a bottom layer.
How they get along is a funny question, in nature they live in colonies, which means they know eachother. In fact, they know other species of snakes too. and get along with individuals of those. Yet in captivity, we have a habit of immediately separating and raising them in SOLITARY confinement. Then only placing them together, TO COPULATE. Then back to solitary confinement. I don't do that, I may keep in in singles or pairs, or groups, and separate them or whatever, But if they already know the other animals, its not a problem. All social animals are like this. Keep them socially, they are social, keep them solitary and they are not.

Naturally they winter together. So we do that. Then separate as needed by my needs or lack of caging, hahahahahahaha Sorry for saying to much, but the point is, what you read has little to do with the animals, instead a product of how they are kept. The reality is, you can keep them in any way you want, and in many different ways. Its up to you. Only be aware of the animals, like, did not place two starving snakes together. That's not a good idea, or if your going to keep them in groups, let them learn about other snakes when as young as possible. or if you acquire older animals, place them together during non feeding seasons(winter) After you do that, you can separate or keep them together at any time. Its simple behavior.

I agree, that many of the care sheets may be guidelines for what has worked for others but not everyone. We have had most of our hogs for 3-5 yrs now I have found that there isn't much about hogs that is comprehensive enough to answer many of the questions that we have had and will still have. I have been reading answers and thoughts from you and Gregg and found that most of what you two write has been true for us also with few exceptions. We have had most of our hogs for 3-5 yrs and put the first two pair together last yr with no luck. We hope for better results this year and that much more knowledge. We will have many more questions now that we are attempting to breed and hope to pick both of your brains when necessary.
Thanks.

I meant to hit preview.
This is from tonight.

Nice.

Does anyone know how insemination works? When males lock, do they actively inseminate the whole time when locked. Or do they inseminate at the end like humans do? Hopefully I asked that correctly to understand.

a slow drip, like old people, just sayin. At least that is what I read. Just kidding about the old people, I hope.