Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

Since this is my first post, please bear with me while I give you a background on my setup:

I have an outdoor "Whiskey barrel" pond (~25 gal - 26" diameter, 18" depth) in a Zone 4a-5a (Albuquerque, New Mexico). The temperatures are rising here (high 60's to high 70's). I've had this barrel set up with a normal pond liner and a "fountain" (faux hand pump) for about week now. Within this setup, we are using normal aquarium gravel that was purchased at PetSmart, about 1/4 inch deep. It is also supplimented with about 2 handfuls of gravel taken from a healthy, established, cold water tank from my local pet shop (not Wal-Mart or PetSmart).

I let the water stand for 2 days as well as added supplements of AquaSafe to ready the water. At the same time, we purchased a couple of Japanese Water Iris' and have them planted in thier pots.

The next day (3 days after setup), I went back to my local pet shop and looked at the fish (they have "feeders", Comets (thought they were the same, but oh well), Koi, 'Bunkin's, and Fancy's. Naturally, I went with.... a fancy (thought I was going to say Koi, did you? lol). I got a beautiful 3" fantail (white and orange). He looked in prestine condition, but acted "depressed" in the tank, as did all the other Fancy's in that tank. Needless to say, I purchased the little guy.

I used to have tropical fish growing up so I am aware of all the procedures. We didn't quarantine since he is the only fish. We "floated" him using the traditional methods for 45 minutes, no sign of distress or problems. I also examined him closer, through the bag. Again, prestine condition. Fins expanded, full and bright color, normal eyes, etc. Once he was released to the water, he took off straight down to the opposite corner of the barrel (didn't sink, swam on own free will). I've been worried ever since.

Thinking he just didn't like all the open water (nothing but the gravel and Iris' mind you), I got a half cinder block and cleaned it up real nice and clean and slowly placed it in the tank. He seemed to like that as now he hides in the middle virtually all the time, but still was very lazy.

He doesn't seem stressed and doesn't show any tell-tale signs of any diseases or problems (aside from the genetic swiming issues Fancy's have). On a very rare occassion, he will get out and swimm about when the patio lights are off, it's dark outside, and nobody is around (I watch him from the balcony above). The second someone steps out or turns on the light, it's like he plays dead (actually quite funny). He'll stop dead in his tracks and sink down or even run back to his block or corner.

He hasn't eaten in the last week (not that I know of anyway). We've offered him 2-3 pellets, but he won't take them (again, as far as I know. They disappear, but I'm not sure if he eats them or if they sink). Naturally, I keep telling myself that he's still getting used to the new home and I want to run out and get him a buddy, but I have to stop myself and think about what if he really is sick.

Now, like I said, we don't have lighting, filtration, oxygenation, etc aside from the water fountain pushing 30GPH. This should be plenty of oxygen for him, but I was worried about the other Chem's. Naturally, I made another trip to the local pet shop. I ended up coming home with a Penguin 100GPH tri-filter (mech, chem, and BIO-wheel) to help regulate the chemicals as well as add extra oxygen. I also ended up with 5 bunches of Anacharis for both an oxygenator and food for the guy (since he won't eat when I'm around).

The barrel seems to be doing alright. I added another half dose of AquaSafe just in case. I need more cover for sure, but he has the block for now. The barrel gets full sun 3-4 hours a day. I have yet to have "green water". Water temps flucuate from 65F at night to 68F during the day (which should be in the range, if not a bit high, for him). I plan on getting a small 25W or 50W heater for winter next year, but no need right now.

So, now that I've bored you with my full setup, do I have anything to worry about aside from getting more cover in there? I've got some Hornwort and dwarf lilies on the way. I haven't bought any test kits yet (I know I should, but when I see the price for the 5-in-1 [$30 for 25 tests], I always back down, even though I KNOW I need it, especially in the first months) but everything looks good. Water should be "safe" and the filter coupled with the plants and conditioned gravel should handle the Ammonia and Nitrites, right? Is there anything else I could be missing? My daughter loves this little guy and I would hate for something to happen. I know I made mistakes, but I rushed before reading (lots of good knowledge on here!) and now I'm trying to make the best of things. Please tell me the guy is just getting used to his new home or, at the very worse, is stressed. I doubt he's stressed because his fins are still extended, he doesn't gast for air, and is still "slimey" (only touched once). If there's anything else you need to help me diagnose, please let me know.

Thanks to everyone who has read my entire life story. I greatly appreciate it!

--Joseph

Hi Joseph.
What a lovely set up you have. If only we had the summer heat (scotland)to be able to have fancies outdoors then i would do this myself.
Ok, back to fishie.
As you havent had him long then yes he may well be settling in and is a bit anxious about being on his own, it could take several weeks for him to settle or not even until he has grown somewhat and feels less vulnerable.. I would say get another fantail from the same tank if you can and he may feel more secure with another fish. If you do go down that route get a fish that seems more in your face when you choose one and maybe it will be more bold in the barrel. Also with it being in the barrel all the fish can see is whats above and will make him more skitish to anything moving, again this should go in time.
The filter will need to go through a cycle and you really do need those test kits. Try to just get ammonia if you cant afford the others just now. If and when you do get any ammonia, try and keep it well under one if you can and then buy a nitrite kit as well.
Plants dont use any ammonia or nitrite and only use nitrate to feed on.
just as a side note, the filter needs to be able to turn over 10x the capacity as they are incredibly messy fish.
I think thats everything as i cant see the post once i'm typing. Good luck with him and just be a bit more patient, he will come round.

Thanks for your reply oranda! As far as the filter, I was thinking that a turnover of 4x was alright in addition to my fountain, that adds just over a 1x per hour for a total of 5x. I had no idea I needed so much! I do have a spare fountain pump that pushes 100 GPH that I was using on a 3-tier fountain back when we lived in Texas. Perhaps I'll swap them out and that will give me a 10x turnover, but still only a 4x filtration turnover. I've read, and re-read a lot of "Whiskey barrel fish pond" sites and very few of them use [much] filtration aside from the natural cycle. The only thing I can really do is check and monitor daily. I finally convinced the wife for at least an Ammonia test kit and I'll eventually build up the supply. When I took the trip to my local pet shop to get the fish, I took a sample of water for them to test to be sure and all was fine (reading 0's, "safe", etc). Of course, this doesn't help me now that there is a fish in there....

But thanks for your reply. I will keep you posted on what happens. My gut keeps telling me that he's just playing shy in a new environment.

Alright, so I arrived home today to find Brea (as my daughter calls "him" in the same spot he was this morning, behind the cinder brick in his corner. I also noticed that the water was beginning to turn green (new tank syndrome). Hopefully the filter/bio wheel will kick in full force soon and start to eliminate the algae. It also doesn't help that we moved the potted tree that provides shade so that we could do some landscaping.

Anyway, still nervous, I decided I would try to coax the little bugger out for a close examination. I first used an Anacharis bunch. I didn't poke or prod him as he was more than willing to dart off when it came near. Once I got him closer to the surface, I gently held the Anacharis under him and he seemed content to swim just above it so I didn't have to support him too much. I watched carefully for signs on distress during the procedure. I tried to look at every inch of his body, though I couldn't get him upside down (nor did I try too hard). Everything looked alright to me.

I didn't manage to make it to the pet shop in time tonight for a test so I'll have to do it tomorrow. I'll probably pick up some prevanative meds as well. Does regular table (Epson) salt work the same as aquarium salt (in a .10% and then .10% again for .20%?) or should I wait and use that as well?

Here are two shots I had my wife take. I tried to get him as far out of the water while keeping his head is for examination, but I didn't want to get him out too far. As you can see, the fins aren't clamped, but they aren't as fully extended as they were yesterday (I believe). Also, he is of beautiful color. On a side note, what kind is he? I paid the price of a regular "fantail" and that is what I believe him to be, but you all are the experts. In the second picture, you can see a silvery glint at the gill level. This worries me so what could it be? I don't see anything else that bothers me.

Thanks for all your help!!!!

He is an oranda and a very pretty one at that. His fins are nice and clear and no signs of red streaking. You dont need to add any meds or salt as he looks fine and will settle in time. If you ever need to add salt then only use rock salt, aquarium salt or pickling salt. dont add table salt because it contains an anti caking agent.
As for filtration, make sure it isnt so strong it blows him round. To try and keep him closer to the top then maybe try having the flow at the bottom as they dont like the current too much.
It takes a lot of time for him to get to trust you and eventually he will start looking forward to your visits, good luck with him, he sure does look cute.
Keep an eye on the water quality as your filter will cycle in the next 6 weeks and you need to test each day for ammonia and then nitrites. Always keep those under 1 with water changes.

Oranda,

You have been a major help and I appreciate it! Here's the latest:

I spent yesterday afternoon and this morning working in the pond. Yesterday, I picked up a 100W heater and started to heat the water a bit (water temp dropped to about 52F at night and rises to about 70F during the day... big flucuation I think). I also started to look for a fishie friend for him, but still haven't purchased anything. I also picked up my test kits and immediately tested everything. Ammonia was between 0 ppm and 0.25 ppm (I would guess it to be about 0.10 ppm). Everything else was perfect at 0, pH nuetral (about 7.0). I also picked up a goldfish book just for reading knowledge.

This morning, I checked the water temp, which was holding steady at 65F. I decided to try and get a few more degrees (as that's what the goldfish expert said I should try to get him more active). I sat outside monitoring the temps for a good 3 hours. I've got the temp to 69-70F. Once it hit about 68F, the little bugger almost immediately started to become more active. While watching the water, I took my bunched up Anacharis and starting to seperate it, placing single strands throughout the pond. The little guy must have been wanting this done for a while because after a couple of minutes of placement, he emerged from his corner, began swimming near the surface, and started to check out the newly places strands of plant. Little guy even uprooted one of them, which seemed to scare him a bit. Ha! He still hasn't eaten any fish food though nor has he seemed to warm up to my hand while moving around inside the pond. I took a strand of Anacharis and put it in his little "cave", in which case he appeared to do some "house cleaning". He was pushing and pulling on the Anacharis inside his brick and looked like he was trying to arrange it how he wanted it. He even scooped up some gravel and took it in with him. Just seeing this made me feel a LOT better.

In regards to the filtration, there is a slight current (my floating thermometer will make a complete circle in about 2 minutes), but because of the placement of the cinder block, he can hide behind it and not have to fight anything. Just to slow it down some more, I closed the secondary (upper) filter vent.

Everything seems to finally be coming together now and I'm glad that you have helped me out. If you hadn't, I probably would have dosed the guy up on so many meds that even a drug addict would be worried. Heh! I'm making another trip to the store today to pick up some different food varieties and other things for the road ahead. Perhaps I'll get him a small buddy?

Thanks again for all your help!

hi again
judging by your last post you have completely fallen in love with this little guy and its really nice to see.
I think it would be wise to put the heater and have it set for 70f as this will help his digestive tract to move food through and not have it sitting in his gut when the water cools down. this may also get him eating as well. a buddy is a good idea but try to get one from the tank he came from or from the same store.
any other questions please dont hesitate in posting, its a pleasure to help you, take care.

You nailed it! I am in love!!!!!

I went to PetSmart (LFS was closed) and was actually surprised at their fish. Perfect looking, very active, not a single sick or dead fella in any tank. I decided today was the day to buy a friend for little Brea. I was talking with the head aquatics guy and was talking fish.

1)He keeps his goldfish tanks at 75F.... so I decided I would go from 70F to 72-73F and see how they react.

2) They feed a ring of orange every day and they go crazy over it. I cut a small wedge and tried.... and sure enough, Brea and her new friend went crazy over it.

3) I asked about Ryukin in with Oranda and he said they should be fine... which leads me to the pictures!!!!

I'm pleased to say that the friend seems to have really done the trick, more so than anything else. I thought I got one about the same size, but this guy turned out quite a bit smaller than I thought (about an inch smaller than Brea). He's a red/white Ryukin named "Rajah" (my daughter LOVES the Disney Alladin film and he looks like a tiger... so Rajah it was). He's a very lovely fish. Brea likes to bulley him around (no fin nipping, just nudging). Brea has also shyed away from the fountains, but ever since I added Rajah, they BOTH like to swim in to it and get pushed down. I'm sure eventually they'll learn it's not really fun, but we'll see. They also like to hide/play behind the waterfalls.

And, for the first time, when I placed food in the water, Brea ate!!!!!!!!! I was tempted to give him a feast, but held it to 2 minutes even. Both were chowing down on flakes and a bit of tubiflex.

Enough blabbering, here are the images. I didn't want to post them so they are hosted on my personal web space (ultra-high quality so beware).

Thanks for all your help! I couldn't have done it without you!!!!

home.comcast.net/~robinsonfamilyweb/new1.JPG
home.comcast.net/~robinsonfamilyweb/new2.JPG
home.comcast.net/~robinsonfamilyweb/new3.JPG
home.comcast.net/~robinsonfamilyweb/new4.JPG
home.comcast.net/~robinsonfamilyweb/new5.JPG
home.comcast.net/~robinsonfamilyweb/new6.JPG
home.comcast.net/~robinsonfamilyweb/new7.JPG
home.comcast.net/~robinsonfamilyweb/new8.JPG
home.comcast.net/~robinsonfamilyweb/new9.JPG

rajah is stunning!! good find. They both look so cute together as well.
Glad to have helped you. Any more questions please dont hesitate, its a pleasure.
Shame you live in a different country, or i would find out where you are and fishnap them for myself!
Good luck!!