Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, everyone!

Four days ago we found one of our female bettas dead in the tank. She looked completely normal. We had her for two years.

That same day I notice that our other female (who shared the tank with the deceased one - with a seperator) has a pretty big belly. I stopped feeding her for a couple of days and gave her some tiny pieces of peas then. That didn't seem to do much. Her belly is still huge. She acts completely normal, though. Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks so much!

Hi.

It is possible that your first female, died of natural causes. Unless you are positive of her age when you purchased her, it's a definite possiblity.

As for your other female, how much do you feed and how often? It is possible she is just over stuffed. This could lead to swim bladder problems. The peas would help with the swim bladder problems if she were to develop them. How many days is a couple? two? I often recommend a 5 day fast. I attached a link for you on what an over stuffed betta looks like, and what it should look like for a properly full betta. I hope it helps. Let me know if that's what seems to be the problem.
Betta Talk

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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Thank you very much for your reply!

I think our first female (Minno) was pretty young when we purchased her. She didn't have her full color. She turned blue later. How old exactly I don't know.

We have had our second female (her name is Great White Shark )) for a year now. She was also very small and fairly colorless when we got her. She turned out to be mostly red and blue. AND she is definitely constipated. Her belly is HUGE. Every morning I expect her to be dead thinking she can't get any bigger, and then there she goes; still getting bigger.

I fed her peas again just earlier. (Today is Sunday). She hasn't had any other food since Monday. I usually feed very little, 4 tiny pellets once a day, skipping a day here and there.

How often should I give her peas? When should I offer regular food again? Should I wait for her to pass some stool first? I have not seen her do that, but of course I am not always around to watch her.

Should I go without any food, even peas, for 5 more days? What will happen if she can't have a bowel movement? She literally looks like she's going to pop any moment. I feel terrible for her.

Thanks again for your help!
Carolina

A clarification: When I said "I usually feed very little, 4 tiny pellets once a day, skipping a day here and there" I meant before she was sick I feed her betta-pellets once daily, skipping days every so often.

With this belly issue, I have fed her peas three times since Monday. Each time a very small amount, maybe 1/4 of a shelled baby pea or less.

Another piece of information: her swimming skills do not seem to be affected. (I had a male betta before her who had swim bladder and therefore swimming issues.)

Thanks again!

Carolina and GWS

It is still possible that Minno died of natural causes. Since you didn't purchase her from a breeder, the age is unknown, and color can be affected by different factors (food, water chemistry, age, etc.).

You can feed her some pea every day (it adds fiber to her diet and works the same as it does in humans). The same amount you feed her should do the trick. You can feed her pea every other day if you'd like. She may also be holding eggs, but I can't remember at this moment how long you said she's been big. Do you have a male around her? There's a picture of a female betta that's holding eggs in the link below. You may or may not be able to see vertical lines on her body.

Feeding Great White Shark peas won't cause her any harm as long as you're not feeding her only peas for 6 months (or a very long period of time). When my female was still alive, she did have a pretty big belly, but that was her normal size. Has Greate White Shark always had a bigger stomach? and it's getting bigger now? Or has she been normally sized (compare to Minno)?

It doesn't sound like she should be constipated because you didn't feed her a lot of food before this happened. There may be another reason, and without seeing her and knowing her as my own fish it's a little difficult to say specifically. Not to mention pin pointing a problem like this is difficult to begin with. I'm trying to give you all the possiblities I can think of. Hopefully we can figure this out quickly. Do you have water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, pH, temperature, when's the last time you did a water change, how much water do you change, how big is the tank)? Are there other odd behaviors or abnormalities in her personality? Does she still seem hungry and is she eating?

Unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can do for her, but wait for things to work out. Try to lessen her stress by keeping the water clean, and perhaps add an air stone.
Pregnant betta

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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

I have no water parameters. I guess I should go get a test kit. I changed about 50% of the water last Monday (a week ago) right after we found Minno dead. (They shared a 5.5 Gallon tank.)

I usually change 20-30% of the water every two weeks. The tank is 5.5 gallons with a heater and an in-tank filter.

Her behavior hasn't changes at all. She still wants food badly. We do not have a male, so I don't think she can be pregnant.

When Minno died, we did not observe a big belly on her. She looked the same as always. GWS has a huge belly compared to what she usually looks like. They both were slender fishes.

Thanks so much for all your information. I hope she can recover from this. I haven't seen her have a bowel movement, but I am not around all day, and our rocks are dark-blue. So bowels are hard to find in there.

Carolina and GWS

Or can she be pregnant? Could she have produced a bunch of eggs without the male being around? Fertilization happens outside of their bodies, right?

Her belly is really huge and white; protruding on all sides like a tiny baseball. I don't see anything like this on the pictures you sent me the link to.

Thanks again!

Here I am again: I think she might actually have eggs in her belly. There is the white ovipositor sticking out a tiny bit and when I look at her with a flashlight, I see tiny white specks inside her belly. Other than that, her belly looks like an airbubble.

Should I keep her on peas to be safe? What will happen with her eggs without a male around. I read that her body will absorb the eggs in that case.

Thanks again!
Carolina

Stranger things have happened (in nature that is). I suppose it's possible that she could be holding eggs without the presence of a male, but I don't think she would do that as egg production is energetically costly. Fertilization is external, you are correct.

Are you sure it is an ovipositor? Does it move? If she is indeed holding eggs, she may absorb them or she may lay them, but if she lays them she will probably eat them to reabsorb the nutrients.
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

No I am not sure. I don't know what to think anymore. She still has a huge belly which is mostly clear with a tiny white something sticking out at the bottom. And she is acting normal. I wish I could get to the bottom of this.

You can usually take a sample of you water to the pet store you purchased your fish from and they will give you the readings. A testing kit is a good idea if you are able to purchase one. Otherwise, you can just take your sample to the pet store. Make sure you have a good bit of water, maybe like a half a cup just to make sure they have enough water to do the tests for different parameters.

May I ask why your water change was so big last monday? Was it because you found Minno dead? If so, a big water change isn't necessary as long as you remove the dead body quickly (where there is no decomposition).

I have a thought, but I don't know if it will work as it does in my head. You can try to use a paper towel at the bottom, so you can see a bowel movement if she has one. If you see one it is important to note if it looks solid (like a solid string of poop) or if there are breaks (kind of looks like bubbles a little bit) or any abnormalities. I know it's gross to look at poop and observe these things, but it helps me get an all around view of what's happening with GWS.

So far, I don't really have a 100% diagnosis. I would keep her on the peas for a bit longer. I do have another question... are her scales protruding on all of her body or even in the bigger stomach area?
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Great idea. I might just take some water over there.

Yes, I changed the water because of dead Minno. I guess it was a panic reaction.

I don't mind looking at poop, and I might try putting a towel there. I would have to remove her "furniture", though. She's got some plants and rocks in there.

I don't think her scales stick out. I have been examining her for that as I have read about Dropsy. Is that what you are thinking about? Her body is not bloated or swollen anywhere else. It's just that tiny baseball under her gills, and I think her scales don't stick out there, either.

If she were constipated, why would her belly look so clear and inflated? It looks like someone blew it up with air.

Thanks again for all your insight!

You can have some of the decor on top of the paper towel (and the paper towel on top of the rocks), the poop should fall to the bottom, and since it's mostly white (or all white) the poop hanging from the decor should show. It is very difficult for me to diagnose a problem like this, as they don't occur often and the symptom of the big belly could be a couple different things (which I've discussed with you, and you with me). As soon as we know if she is pooping or not and how often, it may make it easier to diagnose. Water quality is also beneficial to know, but may or may not help (meaning if you have good water quality, it probably won't tell me much about what's going on with her).

If she did have dropsy, her scales would be obviously sticking out. It doesn't sound like she has it. That means you probably have good water quality.

Usually with constipation, the fish has trouble swimming and staying right side up. This isn't always the case, but it usually happens. It is really hard to say what's wrong at this point.

I really hope she's a trooper until we figure this out.
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Well, she looks the same, or even bigger, but she is a trooper all right. Wants food and is active. I can see tiny white pellet-like things inside this big belly. I am afraid to feed her but if she's pregnant she will need food!

I might really try that paper idea.

I'll let you know when I have taken the water to be tested. Hopefully tomorrow.

Thanks so much!

Keep me posted on anything new. You can still feed her the peas, but until you see a bowel movement, I wouldn't feed her betta food.
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

I think she is going downhill. She is bigger than ever and seems to have issues swimming as well. Looks like swim bladder dysfunction now. She floats at the surface and has to find a plant to keep her lower or near the bottom.

She is still very hungry and interested in food. I have not seen any bowel movement. I think she really doesn't have any.

I would attach a photo for you, but I don't know how. I don't have a URL for it.

I have been fasting her with a bit of pea every so often. No change at all. I am expecting the worst.

Carolina and Great White Shark

There's not much else you can do for a swim bladder disorder than peas and/or fasting. If she doesn't have a bowel movement, she will not make it, unfortunately. When a fish is constipated, it makes the intestines bulg and the swim bladder is located next to the intestines, so the blug effects the swim bladder making it difficult to expand or deflate in order to move around the water column.

You can email me a picture, my email is phishie@pethobbyist.com. I would like to continue correspondence here as it will help other people if they encounter this problem, but I'll take a look at the picture via email.

I hope GWS can pull through and be a happy healthy fish. I have been wondering how she was doing. I have my fingers crossed for her. Please keep me posted. Keep up the fasting and feeding peas.
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Thanks for your address. I sent some pictures. What puzzles me is that her belly is so big and clear. It seems empty, like a balloon, filled with air (or actually water) but nothing much else.

I think I can see her bowels somewhere in there as when she eats the peas I can see a bit of green in one spot. However, the rest of the bulge remains seemingly empty. Just terribly bloated.

The swimming issue is fairly new. So this big belly started to grow long before that.

She doesn't swim around much anymore as she has trouble staying low. She wedges herself between the heater and the glass, or in the middle of a plant, to stay away from the surface.

I don't think I can help her anymore, although, the male we had previously recovered from a swim bladder condition. (He has passed away since). He never grew a belly, though.

Thanks again!
Carolina and GWS

Oh my goodness!! That's huge. Poor GWS.

I read several more sites, and most the problems were things we've discussed. There was another possiblity... a tumor. I feel so bad for her.

Yeah, my female betta had swim bladder problems once and I fixed it... then she died of a gill disease... very sad.

I think it's safe to say that GWS doesn't have a swim bladder problem because that should have cleared up by now. She is quite the gorgeous little girl, and I hope she lives through this. I read that swim bladder disorder can also be caused by bacteria. You can try to find antibiotic food for her, as a just in case.

Keep me posted. I'm going out of town for a few days, so I may not be able to answer right away.
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

You didn't say how long she's had a big belly, could you please specify?
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

I noticed it to be bigger on Monday, that's exactly a week ago.

How is GWS doing? I haven't heard anything from you for a little bit, and I am hoping everything is still the same or better (really hopefully better).

Keeping my fingers crossed for your sweet little one.
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Thanks so much for asking. She is not better. She has been getting even bigger and hangs out in one spot at the surface at all times. She still comes for food and eats.

Her belly is humongous with her left being a bit bigger than her right. I have been giving her peas and have not started food yet. She must be starved by now. My hopes are gone. I think it's just a matter of time.

I have checked the internet a bit more, especially German sites. (My mother tongue). I have found quite a few posts which describe this problem in bettas. No one had an answer to what this could be, though, and no one described a cure for it either.

One thing I need to ask: I tested the water and everything seems fine except for alkalinity which is in the low range. What does that mean for the fish?

I am sorry I don't have better news. Please keep your fingers crossed.
Carolina and GWS

Oh no! I feel so bad for her. I really wish there was something I could tell you that would help. I think you can give her food now because the peas aren't helping with her big belly. You can still give her some peas in case she needs the extra fiber, but if you think her days are limited, I would rather her try to enjoy her last days with you.I searched online too, but to no avail.

Alkalinity refers to the water being more acidic, and if it is low alkalinity then that means the water is more neutral or basic. Did the pet store tell you what the pH was? Or just the alkalinity? Typically a pH of 8 is normal. Unless the alkalinity (or pH) is very low, there aren't ill effects on the fish. If it gets too low there can be internal effects on the fish, but I don't think it would cause the bubble on your sweet GWS.

Fingers crossed tightly.
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

I meant to write sooner, but December was a crazy month for me. Great White Shark died in early December. Her last days/week were not good at all, and I thought often about ending her life myself. She wasn't able to swim at all in the end and would stay put in whatever position she was (on her back, nose down or similar). Once in a while she would use her fins rapidly and move a bit only to end up in another hopeless position.

Anyway, I never found out what she had. Someone said that swim bladder issues are common in feeder goldfish and they sometimes swell up as well.

We now have a new beautiful male (gorgeous pinks and reds) named Jupiter. I really hope we will have him a long time.

Thanks again so much for your help!
Carolina

I'm sorry for your loss. I know how hard it is to have to watch a beautiful girl die slowly because you think what you're doing is helping, but then you find out it isn't and then you realize there's nothing you can do.

I hope you will get to spend more time with your sweet new guy, Jupiter. I bet he's a handsome little one.
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Phishie
Site Coordinator

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Thanks so much! I am now trying to underfeed rather than overfeed, and I am giving him peas once a week. I hope he'll be a healthy one.

Best wishes