Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi there here is my poorely organized story...please bear with me....
I have been researching a few different bird and parrot species to find out which one is the best fit for me. I have had a few species in mind and thought I had narrowed it down...but then whilst in a privately owned pet store picking up some food and looking at some birds, I saw a rather quiet and demure Amazon (not sure what type, maybe yellow naped). I started talking to it and it seemed shy, but came over to me and was trying to mimic me.
I inquired about him and he is 14 years old and has been at the store for 1 year or more (some guy gave him up). The owner took him out so I could hold him and he immediately sidled up to my shoulder where he proceeded to fluff himself up and regurgutate food for me (never met this parrot before). I don't know what it is about him, but I can't stop thinking about him. I had not considered an Amazon...and I have met some others that I suspect were Amazons and just didn't give them a second look at all but this one was different.
As far as living arrangements, I live in a 3 family house (separate apartments)that is owned by my family in a city near boston. My neighbor used to have a macaw that I never heard screech until he was outside...a bunch of other neighbors have parakeets and other birds (i can hear them even now in winter). My neighbors dogs bark a lot at 8 am...so i am sure some screeching in the morning or occasional screeching is not that bad compared to those two German Shepherds constantly barking up a storm every day, but I'd still like to know what all you current owners think based on that comparison. I feel it would just blend in with the GSD's the other birds and just city sounds so that no one neighbor could just complain about whatever bird i get (although no one really complains around here). Of course in the house itself it is not loud so the bird would not be stressed.

Here are my questions:
-Based on what I have typed....do you current owners think it's do-able with regards to noise? I could personally care less about the noise.
- What time do your amazons typically "go to bed"? My beardies have lights off at 8 pm, so I have a nice quiet dark room for whatever bird I get.
-Exactly how much and loud do they screech and would it just "blend in" with all the other noises that go on around here sometimes? or will it be like a macaw where it is so ear piercing and constant that I will have the cops called on me?
- He was very quiet and well behaved in the pet store...but of i got him home, would likely screech because of the change and be a bit upset? How long would that last?
-Is the fact he was quiet and well behaved in the pet store a good sign or does it mean he is just depressed because no one gives him the time of day?
- Is it a common occurance for them to regurge for a stranger (me) fluff themselves out and make themselves comfy on their (my)shoulder? or are they just charmers?

And also....i could care less about the following:
- Biting
- Noise INSIDE the house that might wake me up or an noise...it's just the neighbors I worried about.
- High levels of attention
- Money 9i'd make sure to budget).
- Having to buy fresh foods...i already do it for my other animals.
- I could care less if it ever talks again...I just like this bird for some reason talking or no talking.
- Mood swings....I have pets that are display only as well and I have some that go through breeding season biting lol I'm ok with letting my animals be animals.

Things I already have a constant supply of anyway:
-Calcivet and beak blocks for the squirrel who have specific calcium and D3 needs.
-UV lights
-Space for a huge cage
- A quiet dark room for the animals (dedicated solely to my animals).
- Fresh fruits, nuts, and veggies.
- bird seed for the gerbils.
-perches around the house to accomodate the squirrel at night when he is awake. Would be good for a bird as well and there is no risk of zoonotic disease.
-I realize that I still need to leave it in my will even though it is 14 years old.
-Time...I have plenty of it...
- I don't travel a lot and if I do i try to bring my animals with me.

Would this be a good fit? I'd of course have to research some more and will not impulse buy this bird (otherwise it'd be here alreadu!)...but I don't even want to bother if all you current owners think it's a bad idea due to the noise and my living situation. If you think it might possibly work can you recommend any books for me to read besides researching on forums and the internet? I hope I have typed everything clearly...if not feel free to ask clarifying questions.I am not very good at organizing my thoughts in type since I have soooo many questions about this bird lol.

Thank you for your time!

Okay I both own amazons (double yellow head, orange wing, red-lored, blue fronted and yellow naped) and I also work with them through the rescue so I can definitely give an opinion

-Based on what I have typed....do you current owners think it's do-able with regards to noise? I could personally care less about the noise. -- I think if it is possible it would be good to speak with your neighbors before purchasing one. If you are on speaking terms and talk to each of them individually then it should give you a good idea of what they will or won't tolerate and how apt they are to complain about noise levels. If you are not on speaking terms with them or if you don't get along with neighbors they are much more apt to call the police or complain. Okay that being said it depends on the individual bird. Two of my blue fronts talk in normal level voices and do not scream at all. My DYH loves to shriek "Fire, Fire" at the top of his lungs and can be heard quite well outside and some distance away. My orange wing will scream first thing in the morning and right before bed. Two of these were "Quiet" in their old homes (the noisy ones now LOL!) and the other two were said to be quite noisy although I don't agree. Some birds will be on best behavior for attention, and once they settle in will start the morning and night loud greetings. Others are quieter and do not scream as loudly. The screams may just combine in with the other actual sounds or the other sounds may set off more bouts of screaming if the bird is not used to those specific sounds.

- What time do your amazons typically "go to bed"? My beardies have lights off at 8 pm, so I have a nice quiet dark room for whatever bird I get. We do lights out at 9:00 at night and lights on at 8:00 in the morning so they have 11 hours of night time. The best amount of time for "night" is between 10 and 14 hours.
-Exactly how much and loud do they screech and would it just "blend in" with all the other noises that go on around here sometimes? or will it be like a macaw where it is so ear piercing and constant that I will have the cops called on me? I somewhat answered this above. The sounds might blend in or might be set off because of the other noises. An amazon scream can be as loud as a macaw but they are in a different tone or sound range which I consider to not be quite as ear shattering (and yes I have a B&G macaw so I know how their screams are as well!)

- He was very quiet and well behaved in the pet store...but of i got him home, would likely screech because of the change and be a bit upset? How long would that last? It sounds like he has already went through several changes so he "may" just take them in stride and be content to settle in to a new home. Ask the pet store owner how his/her behavior was when he first arrived, how long it took for him to settle in and how his behavior is to most of the public, more than likely they will try to tell you the "good" about him but should at least tell you some of the actual facts as well

-Is the fact he was quiet and well behaved in the pet store a good sign or does it mean he is just depressed because no one gives him the time of day? If you keep working with him it should be a good sign. Many birds do go through a honeymoon period where they are well behaved and then go through a testing stage where they see what they can get by with but if you are patient and consistent with training you should get through it with a happy and well behaved buddy.

- Is it a common occurance for them to regurge for a stranger (me) fluff themselves out and make themselves comfy on their (my)shoulder? or are they just charmers? Actually during breeding season many will regurgitate for any potential mate so this one may be a charmer but yes it can be common.

Oh one more thing on good behavior in the pet store. When the amazon sat on your shoulder and was well behaved did he step up directly to you from the cage or perch or did the pet store owner/employee get him to step up for you? One reason why I ask is because we have had several owner surrendered birds that when their owner told them to step up to any of us they went calmly and was very well behaved but as soon as we got them home or to the rescue they immediately turned into little trolls, LOL! We have been able to work with them all and get them back tame but they wanted to test us for the first week or so (some even longer) because they were fearful of their changes and new surroundings. This was not the birds fault or even our fault just the fact they were not accustomed to the new circumstance and we had to be patient with them during that time.

Thanks for responding and reading through all of that! i really appreciate it. You brought up a lot of good points and a lot of great questions that are quite helpful.

>Okay I both own amazons (double yellow head, orange wing, red-lored, blue fronted and yellow naped) and I also work with them through the rescue so I can definitely give an opinion

>I think if it is possible it would be good to speak with your neighbors before purchasing one. If you are on speaking terms and talk to each of them individually then it should give you a good idea of what they will or won't tolerate and how apt they are to complain about noise levels. If you are not on speaking terms with them or if you don't get along with neighbors they are much more apt to call the police or complain. Okay that being said it depends on the individual bird. Two of my blue fronts talk in normal level voices and do not scream at all. My DYH loves to shriek "Fire, Fire" at the top of his lungs and can be heard quite well outside and some distance away. My orange wing will scream first thing in the morning and right before bed. Two of these were "Quiet" in their old homes (the noisy ones now LOL!) and the other two were said to be quite noisy although I don't agree. Some birds will be on best behavior for attention, and once they settle in will start the morning and night loud greetings. Others are quieter and do not scream as loudly. The screams may just combine in with the other actual sounds or the other sounds may set off more bouts of screaming if the bird is not used to those specific sounds.

-haha that 'fire fire" thing must be a laugh for your neighbors. I was wondering that as well...he could just be quiet there trying to be a 'charmer' like the regurg/fluffing thing and then all the sudden start the shrieking later. Would that be less amplified from the third floor due to lack of echo (where I live)?what kind fo neighborhood do you live in (suburbs)? I live in an inner city area next to a highway where everyone yard touches basically and we are surrounded by busy streets and cars. I am on a dead end.
I am on good terms with all the neighbors on my street so I can ask them and they are very tolerant of noise. Most of them are loud themselves. The only guy that has ever complained (in the house across the street I am usnure abut) was a new guy who complained after a rock band was practicing in their mom's apartment next door and it was from 5 pm-9pm every night. But..that's extreme noise...more so than any bird screeching or constant dog barking, so i will still ask him. He only complained once and I guess he is my only worry besides the fact I live on a dead end street and wonder if I have to worry about the people that live on the street that is perpendicular to mine. I cannot talk to the people on that street that meets up with my dead end due to the fact they do not speak any english , especially the houses directly behind mine. They never complain though...about anything..especialy since they blast their music on weekends and party until 10 pm.

> We do lights out at 9:00 at night and lights on at 8:00 in the morning so they have 11 hours of night time. The best amount of time for "night" is between 10 and 14 hours.
- Ok that's do-able. Not that much different really.

> I somewhat answered this above. The sounds might blend in or might be set off because of the other noises. An amazon scream can be as loud as a macaw but they are in a different tone or sound range which I consider to not be quite as ear shattering (and yes I have a B&G macaw so I know how their screams are as well!)
-lol yes you did pretty much answer it above. thanks for the info on the macaw scream comparison. That neighbor on the other street (the one where all the non-english speaking people are now) had a blue and green macaw and not once did I hear it unless it was outside. Also too...you brought up the city sounds might make the screaming worse...and I also thought of that lol I suppose I'll not know unless he was in my house.

>It sounds like he has already went through several changes so he "may" just take them in stride and be content to settle in to a new home. Ask the pet store owner how his/her behavior was when he first arrived, how long it took for him to settle in and how his behavior is to most of the public, more than likely they will try to tell you the "good" about him but should at least tell you some of the actual facts as well
-Those are great questions to ask the pet store owner. I didn't even think of that (duh right?). I can ask them. They aren't too bad with wanting to just sell their animals so I'm sure they'd be honest, but I will use my discretion with what they say. The owner told me parrots can be one person birds and to be aware of that, so I think she'd be pretty honest if I asked or at least mostly lol Of course he could act completly different here anyway due to new things and noises.

>If you keep working with him it should be a good sign. Many birds do go through a honeymoon period where they are well behaved and then go through a testing stage where they see what they can get by with but if you are patient and consistent with training you should get through it with a happy and well behaved buddy.
-The honeymoon period is a good piece of info to know. I'm so glad i asked this question here since this is the type of stuff I wanted to know. Thanks. I can do consistency and patience

> Actually during breeding season many will regurgitate for any potential mate so this one may be a charmer but yes it can be common.
-haha good to know. I suspected he might just be a little romeo, but i wasn't sure since I've only dealt with parakeets.

>>Oh one more thing on good behavior in the pet store. When the amazon sat on your shoulder and was well behaved did he step up directly to you from the cage or perch or did the pet store owner/employee get him to step up for you? One reason why I ask is because we have had several owner surrendered birds that when their owner told them to step up to any of us they went calmly and was very well behaved but as soon as we got them home or to the rescue they immediately turned into little trolls, LOL! We have been able to work with them all and get them back tame but they wanted to test us for the first week or so (some even longer) because they were fearful of their changes and new surroundings. This was not the birds fault or even our fault just the fact they were not accustomed to the new circumstance and we had to be patient with them during that time.

-ahhh good point...the owner took him out for me and then I put my hand out to him (once he was on her hand) and he then sidled up my arm to my shoulder and fluffed up. That's a great point and I am glad you added that! Maybe it was the equivalnet of the owner just putting him on a perch (which happened to be me instead of the top of his cage)? I can go back to the store and ask him to do it by myself to see.

I wish there was a way to show you a picture of my street so you could see what I was talking about with relation to noise/dead end thing....although it sounds as if it's up to the individual bird and to how it reacts to everything. i can onyl get an idea of how it would react. The only thing I can control is asking my neighbors.

Thank you SO much again for your answers. I have found them extremly helpful. If you think of anything else I should ask/do or consider, please let me know. I will not just be going out to buy this bird and i think, after what you have said, that the best thing to do would be to keep visiting the pet store...even if it's everyday....to get to know this bird a little bit more and to see if that species (or this individual) really is for me (armed with the great opinions you gave me). Does that sound like a good approach? Should I even bother (would I do right by this bird or is it better off at the store where it is already all settled in)? I know you can only possibly give your opnion and not answer it for me...but i am actually considering it now (just this indiviudal not the species) with regards to a pet bird.

We are actually located at the city limits of a smaller town near an almost dead street with a couple not so close neighbors and we own a large area with empty "lots" around us so we don't have to worry about noise now. We own a home and then the rescue is located in a converted home within walking distance from us.

We used to live right in the center of town before we really started the rescue and when we only had about 12 birds in our house and the rescue. The amazon that screams fire fire was with us at that time and our neighbors did hear him quite well. Luckily they were an older couple that loved animals and would come over to visit them and even cared for them at times when needed.

As far as my opinion on whether you should get this particular bird, hmmm.

Well do you have your heart set on this bird? Do you feel closer to it than any other bird possible or have you had a chance to meet many other medium to larger hand tame birds and be around them? If you are positive that this is the bird for you, if you speak to your neighbors and there isn't a noise problem, if you speak to the pet store owner and interact with the bird on several more occassions, if you aren't intimidated by big beaks and are willing to work through possibly aggressive periods and testing periods and are able to answer yes to all of these then yes go for it! If you are still questioning the decision or can't answer yes to them then I would wait, try to meet some other birds or interact with other birds and see if you hit it off with any others.

Whichever you decide if you end of getting an adult bird I would suggest checking out the books Secondhand Parrot, Parrot Problem Solving, and Guide to Training a Well Behaved Parrot. These books are very helpful and reading through them can both give you a better understanding of problems you might face and also how to help correct those problems if hey arise.

We are actually located at the city limits of a smaller town near an almost dead street with a couple not so close neighbors and we own a large area with empty "lots" around us so we don't have to worry about noise now. We own a home and then the rescue is located in a converted home within walking distance from us.
>ahh that makes things easier I bet lol. The birds are lucky to have you guys!

We used to live right in the center of town before we really started the rescue and when we only had about 12 birds in our house and the rescue. The amazon that screams fire fire was with us at that time and our neighbors did hear him quite well. Luckily they were an older couple that loved animals and would come over to visit them and even cared for them at times when needed.
>Wow you had 12 birds while living in the center of the town? And here I am worried about one...

As far as my opinion on whether you should get this particular bird, hmmm.

Well do you have your heart set on this bird?
> I'd say for the most part yes...but I'd like to make certain and check with the neighbors first.

>Do you feel closer to it than any other bird possible or have you had a chance to meet many other medium to larger hand tame birds and be around them?
Yes to both.

If you are positive that this is the bird for you, if you speak to your neighbors and there isn't a noise problem, if you speak to the pet store owner and interact with the bird on several more occassions, if you aren't intimidated by big beaks and are willing to work through possibly aggressive periods and testing periods and are able to answer yes to all of these then yes go for it!

If you are still questioning the decision or can't answer yes to them then I would wait, try to meet some other birds or interact with other birds and see if you hit it off with any others.

Whichever you decide if you end of getting an adult bird I would suggest checking out the books Secondhand Parrot, Parrot Problem Solving, and Guide to Training a Well Behaved Parrot. These books are very helpful and reading through them can both give you a better understanding of problems you might face and also how to help correct those problems if hey arise.

Ok Thanks for the advice. I will definatley make sure I can answer yes to all of those other questions I can't answer right now (like what the pet store says about his personality and me visiting him more, and the neighbors thing). Thanks for the book recommendations. I will definately order them specifically the second hand parrot as i feel it is most pertinent to this situation and I can only read one book at a time lol. Thanks SO much aagin. I will report back with my decision/findings.

The neighbors are OK. The one I was worried about said it shouldn't be a problem and I have a witness that he said that. He says he jut had a problem with the rock and roll and heavy metal band practicing (which no longer practices here really) but he doesn't care about the animals sounds, even the loud dogs he lives next door to, which i was surprised about.

I talked tot he woman at the store (the one I talked to yesterday) and visited the parrot again. Apparently the store bought the bird from him because he lived in an apartment complex (not a house like mine) and the neighbors complained about his dogs and his bird to their landlord. He was given a choice to get rid of the dogs or the bird. The pet store owner bought a cage just for that bird and they are selling that cage for $100. here is the cage: http://www.birdscomfort.com/Image/medium_stainless_bird_cages.gif
So they didn't just shove the bird into this tiny canary cage, although a bigger one would be nice.

She said when the bird first got there, he had been missing some feathers (probably due to stress) and that she refused to put him on sale until he was all settled (this was 1 year ago of course). She said he just seemed nervous when he first got there and I guess the only real difference was that he actually "talks" more now compared to when he first got there. She said she wasn't sure if he is a confirmed male since that guy could have been lieing or guessing about the sex of the bird. I stayed there talking to her for quite a bit about all of this. She warned me about tefflon (which i thought was very good since most pet stores or people don't know about tefflon and birds).

I then asked her if I could reach in the cage myself and have the bird step-up (like you told me to) and she agreed. So I opened the cage and as I went to put my hand in there, he raised his foot in anticipation to step up and stepped right up without the woman there. He seemed very relaxed too. He then sidled up to my shoulder again and fluffed himself out and seemed quite content. I asked the woman to try to get him off my shoulder (since I didn't have a mirror to see what I was doing) and because I am a stranger to him. She tried...but he would not leave my shoulder. If I get him, we will have to work on that, but I didn't want to push it since he is new to me and because fo the fact he is not my bird. I've read you shouldn't let amazons on your shoulder anyway due to their unpredictability/excitability, especially yellow napes (which I am fairly sure he is now). Not sure if the shoulder thing is a good or bad sign.
He also followed me around the room in his cage and vocally called me back when I went to leave the room (this could turn into a bad behavoir from what I've read, so I'd have to watch that if I bought him). The owner also reached in his cage when I was there after I had already put him back, but he seemed reluctant to leave his cage once I had put him back. Not sure if that's a good or bad sign or if it's "new person syndrome" where because I am new, he is on his best behavior. Even if that is the case, I am willing to work with him.

Sooo....I have ordered all the books you told me to order I am going to keep visiting the bird as I think I might be able to do this now with the OK if the neighbors and armed with help from books and from this and other forums. However...I am still thinking long and hard about this since I really like this bird a lot and the last thing I want to do is do wrong by him or see him unhappy. I already have a vet picked out for him if I do buy him (actually two, just in case one is not available) and they specialize in exotics and birds. I have had experience with both vets with other animals and they are just great. I also have easy access to the best ER vet hospital in my state.

I will continue to visit other stores with birds although I got a chance to visit some of them today and none of them quite compare to my connection with this bird yet. I want to wait until I go to the really big one with the nursery to make sure. I also want to read up more too.

Sooo what's your thoughts? For any new bird, what is a good initial checkup? I was going to get a check over and at least a fecal done. anything else to test for regardless of the bird I end up getting?lol I am sorry for beign so long winded. I like being detailed and like I said, I'm not good at typing. Take your time

It actually sounds like you "might" have already made up your mind LOL! Good work with thinking it through first and waiting instead of doing an impulse buy like so many people seem to do. I would say over 50% of the birds in our rescue have been impulse buys that either just didn't fit in or they weren't what they seemed or "circumstances changed".

If possible even though it will definitely cost more I like to do a full checkup on all new birds. This means a wellness exam (which is basically looking over your bird, possibly weighing and talking to you about diet, caging etc), complete blood workup, fecal gram stain and swabs to check for bacterial and fungal infections. Depending on your vet and if anything is found this could cost anywhere from $150 to $300. Even a healthy bird that has had regular vet visits in the past should get this testing done yearly if at all possible and at the least every other year. We do fecal testing monthly ourselves with all the new birds coming in even though they are quarantined and we also do basic wellness checks. Then they are taken in for blood workup etc annually.

Its no problem to answer questions, that's what we are here for! I would much rather someone be patient and ask tons of questions then to run out and buy a bird with no knowledge and regret it later. So keep the questions coming and let us know how it works out or what you decide.

haha yeah I know it DOES sound like that doesn't it? lol I realized that after I read it myself. I still really appreciate the advice you have given me though. I seem to really connect with him a lot and he also "tolerates/likes" my fiance (who doesn't mind him as well and actualyl likes him).

I went to another pet store today with similar birds and nothing caught my eye or felt the same. I didn't feel as much of a connection with them (i tried), if at all (just like before I met this bird). Then all day today all I could think about was him! I still have not bought him though.

I went to visit him again today too. The owner also told me that everyone that has been looking at him has been male...but this bird likes females. He likes males too..but females are his favorite (which makes me think he's a male as well lol). I spent about 2 hours with him (the owner didn't mind). I am not afraid of him at all, or of biting (which he hasn't done yet) although I am cautious around him simply because I am a stranger. I even took him out with a lot of strange people around and he was still relaxed. He got scared a few times becuase someone scared him but he quickly relaxed again and doesn't seem the least bit afraid for the most part. I even put him back in his cage, took him out, put him back, took him out (i know this tests his patience but I feel it was a good "test". I'll try not to stress him out like that later :-p
If I do decide to get him for sure ( or some other bird), I will definately let you know and also bring the bird to the vet for a FULL checkup so I can make it's healthy and for more info. I don't care how expensive it is for the vet for any of my animals...I was alotting about $500 for whatver birds' initial vet visits and test.
The one thing that is concerning me is there appears to be a ruffled patch of feathers on the left side of his neck....I'm not sure if I should poke it (examine...I obviouslty won't just poke him in the neck lol) and risk getting my finger bit or losing his trust, or if there is a better way of examining it (maybe with a towel over him to prevent him from struggling too much?). Do you have any suggestions for checking that since I am a complete stranger to him? it almost looks like SOME of the feathers might have been clipped/pulled out and now they are growing back therefore making it look poofey in that one spot...but of course i worry about a tumor or cyst.

Also...I have read some metals are toxic to birds...but also appear to be on many bird toys/cages. Is it toxic just by sheer contact/licking/chewing or is it onkly toxic if ingested? Thanks again!

The patch on his neck could be due to him overpreening, an injury (banging on cage bars etc) or he could have had a molt and be regrowing in feathers. If he is allowing you to touch him such as rubbing his head etc you might slightly rub over the area to see if you feel any abnormal growths, skin problems. Just be careful because new feathers can be sensitive and have blood flow to them, some birds actually liked to be rubbed or preened around new feather growth because it helps the sheaths to release.

I would try to get a guarantee from the pet store that if you take him in for a vet check and he is not healthy that they will reimburse you for fees and take him back (even though if you are willing a lot of times it is much better on the bird to keep it and get it treated/cared for yourself so you know it gets better). I just never like seeing a pet store getting away with selling an unhealthy bird. Some bird stores with healthy animal guarantees will help pay for the initial vet visit if the animal is found sick and you agree to keep the animal and get treatment. It just all depends on their policies.

Yes some toys are toxic to birds and other animals. Even some cages can contain lead or zinc without you knowing and be sold specifically for birds. Some toys which birds play with that are actually childrens toys even contain lead. You just have to be careful and check to see if they are "good" companies through word of mouth and references. There are some great stores out there though that test their toys well and even sometimes help out rescues through their bird toy sales. You can actually buy lead test kits in many hardware stores but zinc is much harder to test for. I can suggest some toy stores online that both have good toys/safe toys/and possibly even help out rescues or others with their sales

Went to the store again today. Spent about an hour there because I had to meet with a client. This time, he said hello in what sounded like MY voice as soon as I walked in (as if he were waiting for me lol). Typically he mimics a deeper or more far away "hello", but this one was different. not sure if that means much. Somethign to note though.

Thank you for the info. I checked the "concerned spot" out at the sore today, ever so cautiously and he seems to like that area rubbed. So I am going to say that yes it is either an over preening or new growth due to over/preening or something else. I wasn't able to go too in dept or anything, but if I buy him, a vet can check it out.

The store is really small and doesn't always carry parrots, but they keep their own as pets and seem to know more than most of the stores I have been to (even the ones that sell sick animals ALl the time WITH the healh gaurantees). I asked if I vetted him after purchase and he was sick, if they'd be willing to reimburse me for that and they might. I will try to get something in writing if I can and do decide to buy him. I feel bad if I do buy him because he IS from a pet store that doesn't specialize in birds (was planning on getting one at that bird nursery), but I totally didn't plan on actually connecting so much with a bird (especialyl there since I was not looking lol)I hope that makes sense.

Ideally he'd be at a specialty store or a rescue/breeder so that it would be certain :- But I understand...it irks me when pet stores sell sick animals. If I buy him and the vet find out he's sick though, I would like to not return him, even if it's a chronic condition. It's not like I like him because of his species..I like him as an individual and that cannot be replaced. I know most people go into pet stores and just return something saying "this one died...can I have another one...this one looks funny, can i return it for that color?" It irritates me soooo much. They are not decor or trading cards. i am sure you know what I am talking about.

I was afraid of the metal thing, especailyl since I know most pet stores and websites just sell "whatever looks good". What about the cage he is in now? He has been in it for a year now, so is it ok? I wonder if they'd let me test it for lead and zinc...do I just chip some of the paint off or something? If I do get him, I will get him those approved toys you are talking about and will go though companies you recommend...I don't want to hurt him. I can't believe peopel just impulse buy these birds...I mean..I can't imagine them finding out the hard way their toys or cage were toxic.

Also...the books order didn't go through all the way! So now I have to wait an extra few days lol Got to put it in again. I really want to get reading on the behavioral stuff. Thanks again for all the advice!

For testing the cage it can be done several ways. For lead there are a few tests that you can basically rub the stick/paper up against the cage bars and then if it changes color lead and if not no lead (just depending on which test, the directions should say) as far as zinc I know there are certain areas where you can send off tests but many people who want to test it themselves use Muriatic acid. This can be dangerous and should only be done outside, wearing protective clothing and with cold water available. The acid is dripped onto the toy/metal and if it foams it is zinc coated. The item is then dropped directly into a bowl/bucket of cold water to clear the acid off. Some zinc can be washed off using vinegar and a scrub brush, it just depends on how much zinc was used in the coating/plating of the object.

As you get to know your bird (whether it is the amazon or another) you can see how worried or not worried you need to be on toys/cages etc. If your bird ends up being the type that goes after the wood/plastic/chewy part of a toy and leaves the metal alone there shouldn't be a problem but many love to chew/lick/examine the metal pieces and in those cases it is definitely better to be safe than sorry. The main cases where I have seen problems with zinc is when using homemade galvanized wire cages where a bird is constantly in contact with the zinc coating. I haven't personally seen zinc problems from toys but I have seen lead problems as a result of toys.

With the cage see if you can check out what brand it is and there should be several good places online to see if the cage is safe. Since the bird has already been in it a year as long as his tests come back fine from the vet I wouldn't really worry about it. If his tests come back with heavy metal problems then the cage may need to go and start over with a better definitely safe one.

Ok. I will buy at least the lead tester. While I am comfortable doing the the zinc thing...I'm not sure if the owners would like me messing with an acid on their bird stuff no matter how kind they are :-p. I don't mind buying a new one if I do get him anyway. I thought if I did get him that it'd make him feel better to have that old cage for now. and then transition to a new one. As for the metals on toys and cages...does this apply to other animals as well?

It doea apply to other animals but it all depends on how their cage/toy etc is used.

A bird climbs with its beak (and feet) so every part of its cage is touched and probably even licked by the bird making any toxins easily ingested by the bird. A cat in a cage or dog may jump or climb but they of course use their feet/paws not their mouth so they are not as apt to ingest toxins from a cage. Also in a mid sized or larger dog it would take much more toxins to actually make the dog sick than it would for even a large bird. A birds digestion is also different from a mammal and hasn't been tested for as many years as mammals have. For this reason some things we know are definitely toxic to birds others we aren't sure because they haven't been tested.

We have also found (not fully tested so may be just coincidence) that wild caught older birds that have always been around galvanized cages or toys seem to be better able to get rid of the heavy metal in their system or seem to be not as bothered by it than the fully captive raised birds that have always been in "safe" surroundings and then are subjected to heavy metals.