Reptile & Amphibian Forums

At first we wondered "Hmm, why is this horse only shoed on his front feet?" I learned why the first time I tried to pick his hooves. He'll give up his front feet after some bribery, but his back feet... if your hand goes NEAR them, it's just like he's expecting you to shove a big knife in an open wound. He doesn't kick, but he does run away. I tried to touch them and he shied his leg away like a lady does when she's standing up and trying to cross her legs. If you try to grab them, he stamps away. GRR!
We just got him 3 weeks ago. At first he was fine, but then after a few days started acting spooky. He's only gotten worse and worse since we got him. The first time I rode him he was alright for about 5 minutes, then he took off with me at top speed. We've had to add a tie-down (western martingale kinda thing), tighten the bridle intensely, and switch to a curb bit. He still likes to try me. My instructor is also frustrating me. I've taken like 7 or 8 lessons and I'm still "practicing" my trot. I need to know how to ^%#@$* canter!!!! This horse wants to GO! He's got a lot of energy to burn, and trotting just isn't gonna do it!!
We're afraid someone has beaten the hell out of him. His eyes get huge and wide if your hand goes up near the top of his face and he'll usually jerk away. He also used to lead like a dream, but as of today he started trying to just jump away out of nowhere. Dad also decided to try him a few days ago. He saddled him a bit, sat down, smoked a cigarette, and the horse would just stand around, munching at grass, then out of NOWHERE freak out and break the rope and run off. Dad would go get him, tie him again, and the horse would chill out, relax, then SPAZ and break the rope and run away! The third time he did a nice job of cutting his leg open on the tailgate of the truck.
I don't like this new behavior at all. He's trying to run away from me, and all I've done is be nice and pet him and groom him and give him apples and grain and grass (when he's cross tied to reward him for holding still for however long, little intervals). It's so confusing. It's also a bit scary when he gets away because we have no fence, so when he gets outside and isn't in my hands, it's just pure luck that he only wants to go so far.
How am I supposed to clean his hind feet? Should I get a farrier out here as a last resort to help with this? And does anyone have any idea why he's acting only MORE spooky the third week here than he did the very first? It's a good thing he's not very big and I'm not very weak, or timid for htat matter, otherwise he would've been long gone as of this morning and his three little "make a break for it" attempts on the lead rope.

This is a really tough one to answer because we're not there, able to see the horse, etc.

First off, I'd highly suggest having a vet out. Rule out any physical problems that way before going to mental stuff. This is the MOST common reason for strange behavior.

Second, don't assume he's been abused - its a common assumption whenever a horse doesn't act the way we perceive as "normal" - and its actually more often than not, wrong.

Beyond that, without being there, I couldn't tell you "why" but might be able to help you with a few specific things. You should also seriously consider finding someone, preferably a good trainer, who has experience they can fall back on to help you with this horse. If you don't get help, you can very easily worsen the horses behavior, unintentionally to be sure, but it will make it harder to retrain him the worse he gets.

As to the feet, this will just take persistance. The fact that he is getting worse would indicate that in some way or another, the reaction you have to his behavior is making it worse. If he moves back and you jump, or move quickly out of the way, that in itself can indicate to the horse that there was something spooky, and he was justified in moving away. Its a very common beginner problem when it comes to those back legs because the person fears - and rightfully so - the ability of those legs to kick. You need to always work with the horse calmly, confidently and with determination, but not anger. Start out in your own comfort zone, as it's probably actually more limited than the horse's! Groom/pet/work to the edge of that zone and back up, go a bit further the next time, back up. Act like its no big thing. Work your way down that back leg to the hock, back up and pat him on the hip, and go do something different like pick up the front foot again. Next time go halfway down the cannon. If he picks his leg up at that point, praise him and hold the leg about 3-5 seconds and set it gently down. If he moves away from you, follow him calmly, saying "whoa" quietly but firmly, and when he stops moving a "good boy" with your hand on him and then back up and start again. Keep your shoulder and body close to him, don't step or jump back. The more calm and insistant you are, the less he'll have to be nervous about and the more likely he is to settle down. The closer you are to him, the less likely you are to get hurt should he kick - which really most horses aren't likely to do unless they are truly in pain or scared, or have learned that they can get away with it.

If at any point, you are uncomfortable doing this, you need to step back and let someone who is comfortable handling him do it. It's a lot harder to work with two nervous minds than one

As to his behavior under saddle, it sounds like he's a bit too much for you to handle right now. Hard to say without being there if its a training issue or truly behavior. Is he green broke? Is he on too much feed for what you're asking him to do? Or is he just too much horse for a beginner? I'm very much against using "short cuts" like martingales and tie downs, especially with beginner riders. I greatly prefer taking the horse back to the basics and figuring out where his training was lacking or skipped, or just screwed up, and fixing it there. But again, this needs to be done by a trainer who knows what to look for, what to ask for and how to gauge a horse's mind set.

Another thing that would be really helpful for both you and your horse is at the very least, grab some videos put out by some of the better trainers out there. Clinton Anderson is a good one, as well as Pat Parelli. There are others too and they all have their variations on how to train, but most of their work is sound and will at least help, though each horse is different and some methods won't work on some horses. Ideally, find a trainer doing a clinic in your area and attend with your horse... there's absolutely nothing like hands on and having someone right there who knows what they are looking at!

Good luck, and let us know how things go!
-----
PH Cody
HorseHobbyist Site Coordinator

good job PH Cody!! You covered everything there!

Try not to give treats as an award often. More than likely you will end up with another little nasty habit - nipping.
Good luck!!

I read the other replies, and felt they offered some very good advice. Cody said to have your horse checked out by a vet...I would also recommend this with special attention paid to the eyes...

I once had a horse I was putting some time on for my farrier...a very nicely bred and built QH gelding...He was very sweet and good one minute and very weird the next, spooky, breaking lead lines etc...after expecting him to do some very simple things...like walk over ground poles, which he miserably failed hitting everyone, everytime...I realized this horse had a vision problem...It was nothing that I could see myself...so we called in a vet. When she examined him closely, it was revealed this horse had cateracts...they were so bad it impaired his vision where she thought maybe he only saw shadows, and thus caused the bad behavior in which normally would be a good horse. He was only 6 years old.

I have since come to believe that horses like some of us humans need eyeglasses. If he were mine would have his eyes checked thoughly. The two responses a horse has is to fight or flight. If a horse cannot see what is scarey to him, of course he will run...maybe this is why your horse keeps bolting, and is fearful of his back legs being handled...

Horses with eye impairments that can't be surgically resolved, can be still be useful as long as you restrict his riding to a level arena with good footing. If he trusts you he will do well with sports that require your cues...horsemanship, western pleasure, english pleasure, western riding, and even some limited reining if his vision impairment is mild.

I would never take a vision impaired horse out on the trail, expect him to do a trail course,jump, run barrels, poles or work cattle. All of these activities could lead to disater for both horse and rider. I would also handle him with extreme caution and patience when grooming, clipping, and loading in and out of a trailer... I hope this helps

The vet's been and gone. She wasn't impressed with him, but I don't think I was very impressed with her either. She didn't bother to check his eyes, his ears or his mouth. She also neglected to answer half of my questions. I hate it when people treat beginners as though they're stupid. Mmph!
Don't worry, I'm not letting the horse run all over me, at least I think that's what everyone's thinking. The attempts at breaking away have ceased since that day. He was probably just trying me. As for his running off with me while riding and discomfort with riding and dismounting, we discovered he had a bad case of rainrot right on his back. The people we bought him from never once put him in the stable since they bought him - he was out in the pasture, with no run in shed, for at least 2 months straight (this was during the hurricanes on top of it!). Thankfully that's going away. We had a grand ol' time with learning about this bathing thing. Did you know that towels are MONSTERS?!?!?!?! Scary things, they are. It took lots of cooing and rubbing on the nose to get him to let me near him with that instrument of death. Yeesh.
The treats I've laid off on, don't worry. And he's not real into nipping, but geesh, he's turning into more and more of a licker every day.
As for this rainrot, how long will it take to heal? I've bathed him twice (and will bathe him again as soon as the weather gets happier) using betadine surgical scrub on him as the vet said to, and twice daily I've been putting an anti-fungal powder on him. He seems MUCH less touchy about being rubbed on his legs, but it's still new(scary) to him. The farrier came by last night and loved him, but he said that there's no way anyone's ever taught the little guy what to do with his back feet. He still likes him though, and said he's fine for me even if I am a beginner. I agree with him on this, I'd rather have a horse that I really feel a bond with than a deadbroke one that seems to be off in his own world. I've learned a lot from this one already, and I'm not giving up on him.
We're getting a second horse sometime soon. In fact we're looking around right now. We want a dead broke calm one, one that he can watch and learn from, and one that will help him relax. We don't want him to be all by himself, he's too social! Although I can't say he hasn't enjoyed being by himself this past month. He's a little guy, only about 14.2, and when we got him he had bite marks everywhere from all the bigger horses. I saw one of them bite him the day we got him. One of the horses just ran up to him and bit him for no reason right on the stomach. I think Pistol's enjoyed the vacation.
Don't worry, I'm NOT going to end up riding the deadbroke one over him. That would be asking for an unruly ride. As soon as the rainrot's gone, I'm going to ride him at least 4 or 5 days a week. The more I've asked around the more I'm getting the same response: He's trying you, and as for the feet, he still needs to learn.

PH Cody: you mentioned something about giving him too much feed for what I want to do? Do you mean it's giving him too much energy, or what? That confused me a little.
I've let one other person ride my horse, an experienced old barrel racer. He said I've got a niiiice horse, but he loves to try his rider. As for the dislike of the tie-down, I'd rather keep that for a while than risk a repeat of before just yet. Until I get more used to riding myself I'm not letting him try to run off with me again.
I have a feeling my next ride is going to be one extreme or another. He'll either be better this time around because the rainrot is gone and we've had lots of time to get to know each other (so much that he got very mad at me for leaving one weekend! If only you could've seen the pouty face!). Or he'll be Hell on wheels from the long break. At least I haven't let him have an excuse to forget his voice commands. We taught him to lunge and he loves it. BUT! He loves going LEFT! Going right is sooo confusing! He looks so forelorn and lost if you try to make him go right.
He now seems much more willing to try to please. I think the main problem is this: "I wanna do it right, but I don't know how, and it's scaring the crap out of me!"
I'm also no longer worried about the lack of fence and running off thing. We've been letting him loose a LOT! I think this has helped my disposition around him too, because I'm not nervous around him anymore simply because I know if he gets away, oh well. Not the end of the world. But he loves going loose. He wanders around, sniffs everything in sight, comes back in the barn every now and then, follows me around, goes back to doing his own thing, comes back again, and if he's had enough, just puts himself back in the stall. Speaking of the stall, we've spoiled him rotten. To make a second stall we had to move his over, and in doing so we were able to make it 2 feet wider. He now has a 16x12 stall!

So for the final question... How long does rainrot take to clear up?
And who wants to come over and play with him once he's healed?! Hee hee...

-----
PH Cody
HorseHobbyist Site Coordinator

Here he is. My daaarling little Pistol.

munch munch...
Too bad you can't see his one right blue eye in these pictures