Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I've been keeping snakes for about 5 years now, and have helped a local breeder with his collection and have caught many snakes. Recently, I read that you can buy snakes that have had their venom glands removed, and I had a couple questions about that.

1. Does the process actually work? Can they permanantly not secrete venom through their fangs after this process?

2. Does the surgery have a bad effect on the snake? i.e feeding and health problems?

3. If the surgery does effect snakes, are there ones that fair better after the surgery than others (like Rattlesnakes)

Thanks
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Currently have:
1.0 Amelanistic Corn Snake
0.1 Antherystic Corn Snake
1.0 Eastern Fox Snake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Leucistic Texas Ratsnake
0.1 Oakatee Corn Snake

Saving for:
0.1 Jungle Carpet

I'm gonna copy and paste my post in the general venomous forum cause i'm too exhausted on the subject to type it again, go there for more opinions...

Posted by: psilocybe at Sun Feb 29 02:03:44 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

All info pertaining to why venomoids are not good choices for animals have been presented thousands of times on these forums. I am going to restate some simply because you said you are interested in possibly getting one.

First, venomoid surgery has zero, zilch, no benefit to the animal whatsoever. In many, probably most cases, it actually hinders the animal. Plenty of animals operated on die. Most surgeries are not done by vets, but by "garage vets" who basically aquire basic veternary (and sometimes not) tools and attempt to perform the surgery in a usually unsterile enviornment. THEY DO THIS SIMPLY FOR PROFIT. The reason is simple: There are plenty of people who do not want to take the time or have the patience to keep a venomous snake. This is an easy alternative. If you have any compassion for the animals however, you will see it's the wrong one.

Just because a snake is deemed "venomoid" does not guarentee it. There have been cases of a supposed "venomoid" snake envenomating a person. There are many reasons, i.e. faulty surgery, partial regeneration of venom glands or ducts, etc. And as stated before, most venomoid surgeries are not performed by anyone qualified to operate on an animal. Do a search on these forums to find out more. I have two suggestions for you:

1. Go out and find a mentor. You are not qualified (by your own words) to keep venomous animals...NOW. If you take the time to learn the husbandry and techniques in safely keeping venomous reptiles, and have the confidence and discipline to work with them on a daily basis and keep them healthy and their needs met, you can keep a venomous snake. You just need to learn how to do so properly and safely.

2. Stick to non-venomous. There are literally thousands of non-venomous snakes that are just as amazing and fascinating in their behaviors and lifestyles as venomous snakes. If you are hesitant about your dedication or confidence in dealing with venomous, DON'T KEEP THEM!!!!!!!!!!! There is no requirement for you to keep venomous to enjoy snakes! Simply stated, if you cannot handle keeping a snake WITH IT'S VENOM, you should not be keeping a venomous species, regardless if the individual snake is venomous or a venomoid.

I have so much more to say on this subject, but this is the second post regarding venomoids I've replied to today, and I'm exahuasted talking about it. The bottom line (and most, though not all on here will agree with me), is that venomoid surgery is a useless and hurtful surgery that only benefits greedy people who a) want lots of money so they butcher snakes in their garage, or b) are people who don't want to take the time to learn how to keep venomous snakes, so they go and get a venomoid snake to show their friends how cool they are because they have a cobra and can hold it and hug it, etc...i'm going a bit off here, but you know what I'm saying...I hope. Please, I'm literally begging you, DON'T GET A VENOMOID! Buying them supports the market for them! If you love snakes, or even just animals in general, you will realize this.

I have a cat. He is sometimes very destructive, clawing and scratching furniture, me (owwww!!!), and everything else. He is obviously not declawed. If i could not tolerate an animal clawing my furniture and my flesh, I WOULDN"T HAVE GOTTEN A CAT!!!!!!!!! Simple! He's neutered, but neutering benefits many mammals by giving them longer lives, plus it prevents the explosion of stray cat populations, who have no one to care for them and are essentially the equivalent of homeless people, and have very poor qualities of life. Therefore, neutering benefits not only the keeper, but the animal, and that is why I chose to have my cat neutered and not declawed. I know I really went off on this response, but it's for good reason, as I'm sure others on here can verify...Hope this helps you with your question.

AP

http://www.reptilesofaz.com/h-art-venomoids.html

I read that and found it to be quite useful. I agree that you should not have the animal if you don't have the skill. One of my friends said that if I can catch Black Racers consistently without being bitten, that I can pretty easily keep venomous rattlesnakes and ect.

The point of my question was to get the facts, and truely some "vets" that remove venom glands do hurt the snake. However, a local vet that I know does do that procedure with proper anethestics and treatment.

As the above article says, it does not "hinder" the animal as long as it is fed prekilled food. However, this does alter the animals behavior in the fact of how it eats, but this does not stop it from living a long, productive, happy life.

In truth, animals that are venomous don't bother me one bit, but as I still live in my parents house, they don't tolerate it because they don't want an animal that can kill them in the house. This question wouldn't have come across me except that I live there.

I came upon another question though:

If the snake has hemotoxic venom, does the Venomoid procedure hinder it more than a snake that has neurotoxic venom? As the effects of the venom are for different purpose, is there a distinct difference on how it changes their digestive system?

Thanks for your input
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Currently have:
1.0 Amelanistic Corn Snake
0.1 Antherystic Corn Snake
1.0 Eastern Fox Snake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Leucistic Texas Ratsnake
0.1 Oakatee Corn Snake

Saving for:
0.1 Jungle Carpet

Lol... replying to my own post.

Anyways, I did read more about them and discovered that there has been no proof for or against them, and rather it is a descision that I'd rather not make.

I do almost certainly have the skills to keep a nice rattlesnake, but living in my parents house won't let me do that... Venomoid may have been a good way to keep it, but I reviewed some other information and descided against it.

1. You are modifying an animal in a possibly harmful way to keep it... which is remotely wrong. Not how the animal was designed to be... it was made to have venom glands, let it have venom glands.

2. In most cases people who are inexperienced want these snakes. Exceptions apply (i.e myself), but in general people who operate want to modify the snake to make money by taking a dangerous animal and making it potentially harmless.

3. 2-4 weeks for recovery for a venomoid operation... unless you give an IV to the snake, thats a relatively long time without food (even for a snake). Some may disagree with my conclusion, but the point of having a snake for me is to watch it grow, and with that operation done young on the animal for me to experience that, the animal would have to go hungry for awhile, which doesn't make me want to support the mistreatment of animals.

Answered my own question =/
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Currently have:
1.0 Amelanistic Corn Snake
0.1 Antherystic Corn Snake
1.0 Eastern Fox Snake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Leucistic Texas Ratsnake
0.1 Oakatee Corn Snake

Saving for:
0.1 Jungle Carpet

Glad you made the RIGHT CHOICE! Now to your questions:

1. There is some debate whether snakes with hemotoxic venom fair worse than snakes with neurotoxic venom...in general, elapids do better than viperids with venomoid surgery. It really depends on who you ask as to what effect on digestion venomoid surgery has.

2. You friend saying that if you can catch black racers without being bitten, you can keep venomous is partially correct...this is by no means a "certification" in keeping venomous. Keeping venomous not only entails being able to handle the snake without being bitten, it also means being able to maintain the snake in all aspects (health, feeding, medication) without being bitten. This usually involves a monetary investment (i.e. buying proper tools like hooks, tubes, tongs, etc.). Also, secure caging IS A MUST! The snake is the cheap part. Taking care of it is the expensive one.

You also have to think about the medical aspect of the animal. Most vets WILL NOT treat venomous snakes...it's too much risk for them. You are lucky if you find one that will. That leaves the burden of medical care on you. Are you confident you can safely force feed, inject medication, remove stuck sheds, etc. on a potentially lethal animal (you mentioned rattlesnakes)? This is by no means a discouragement to keep hots, they are extremely rewarding to keep and study IF you are in it for the right reasons AND you have the confidence and proper training to safely keep them...and ultimately, YOU are the only one who can decide if you are ready to keep hots. Just please don't get a venomoid! Hope this helped...

AP

It is plain wrong, it is mutilation and I am not sure how many it kills but I am quite sure it is a lot, lots of butchering going on there. dont support this business, it only encourages more of the same.