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Trying to see if I understand this. If I mate my albino male to a hypo female will I get hypo's het for albino that if mated back to my albino would produce sunglows?
What if I got a DH het for sunglow female for my albino male? or a hypo DH het for sunglow?
My albino is only a few months old, I have a 100% het for albino female for him now but I'm trying to find out what other female I should purchase for him.
Thanks for your help, I read up on recessive genetics, and I understand the basics but it seems to get more complicated when you add in double hets.

>Trying to see if I understand this. If I mate my albino male to a hypo female will I get hypo's het for albino that if mated back to my albino would produce sunglows?
> What if I got a DH het for sunglow female for my albino male? or a hypo DH het for sunglow?
> My albino is only a few months old, I have a 100% het for albino female for him now but I'm trying to find out what other female I should purchase for him.
> Thanks for your help, I read up on recessive genetics, and I understand the basics but it seems to get more complicated when you add in double hets.

Are you are writing about boa constrictors, corn snakes, or some other species? Hypo is a dominant mutant gene in the boa constrictor and a recessive mutant gene in corn snakes. It makes a difference in the answers to your questions. I'm pressed for time right now, but I'll check back later this afternoon.

Paul Hollander

Mr. Hollander, thanks for your reply, I have read just about everything yopu have written on this forum. I'm sorry I left out what you need, I have boa constrictors. The albino and the het are Kahl strain.

Hypo, if you have a homozygous hypo (aka "super" hypo), when bred to an albino, you will get all het hypo het for albino. Keep in mind that in this case 'het hypo' will still look hypo, since it's a dominant trait, while 'het albino' will still look normal since it's a recessive trait.

If you have a het hypo, you'll get 50% het hypo het albinos, 50% normal het albinos.

When you bred the offspring to the albino parent, you'd get the following.

case: het hypo het albino x albino offspring would be:

25% het hypo homozygous albinos
25% normal albinos
25% het hypo het albinos
25% normal het albinos

case: normal het albino x albino

75% normal albino
25% normal het albino

case: het hypo het albino x het hypo het albino

6.25% Homozygous hypo, homozygous albino ("super" hypo albino)
6.25% no hypo, no albino (pure normal)
12.5% Homozygous hypo, no albino ("super" hypo)
12.5% homozygous hypo, het albino("super" hypo het albino)
12.5% het hypo, homozygous albino (hypo albino)
12.5% het hypo, no albino (regular hypo)
12.5% het hypo, het albino (hypo het albino)
12.5% no hypo, het albino (normal het albino)
12.5% no hypo, homozygous albino (normal albino)

This is the chance of genetic sequence PER animal born, not per breeding. You could end up with all normals, or all super hypo albinos... but I'd give up reptile breeding and pick up gambling if the latter ever happened.

>case: het hypo het albino x albino offspring would be:
>
>25% het hypo homozygous albinos
>25% normal albinos
>25% het hypo het albinos
>25% normal het albinos

Check.

>case: normal het albino x albino
>
>75% normal albino
>25% normal het albino

Something wrong here. This is the same case as the first, minus the hypo. I get 50% albino, 50% normal looking, heterozygous albino.

>case: het hypo het albino x het hypo het albino

Definitely something wrong with the results in this third case. I added the percentages for all the nonhypos and got 31.25%, when I figure that 25% is the right figure.

Paul Hollander

How do you figure that out. I read about the punett square but you must be plugging this into some kind of program I guess. Thanks for all your help, I now have some answers but I don't think I understand it any more than I did before. That is confusing stuff.
One more question and I'll leave you alone; what is sunglow and how do you make one?

well i just kinda did that off the top of my head.

Paul, you're right, I messed up a bit, did this in my head in the middle of a db server rebuild

In the het to albino cross it would be 50 albino/50 het albino, sorry.

In a double het to double het pairing you'll end up with 16 genotypes (actually 9 genotypes, 16 genetic pair combinations)filtering out the duplicates), (we'll call hypo/normal H/h and normal/albino A/a)
1/16*100=6.25% So, each genetic pair combination will account for 6.25% of the offspring.

HHAA (Super hypo Albino = 6.25%)
HHAa or HHaA (Super hypo het albino = 12.5%)
HHaa (Super hypo no albino = 6.25%
HhAA or hHAA (Hypo Albino = 12.5%)
HhAa or hHAa or HhaA or hHaA (Hypo het albino = 25%)
Hhaa or hHaa (Hypo normal = 12.5%)
hhAA (Normal albino = 6.25%)
hhAa or hhaA (Normal het albino = 12.5%)
hhaa (Pure Normal 6.25%)

4 phenotypes (There is no visual difference between hypo and super hypo).

Hypo albino = 18.75%
Hypo normal = 62.5%
normal albino = 6.25%
normal = 18.75%

The punnet square on this is what throws people off... it's easier to look at it as I did than do a punnet square... I'll show the punnet squares for all of the situations i listed before.

dbl het x super hypo albino
parents| HA | HA |
|------------------|
Ha | HHAa | HHAa |
|_________|________|
HA | HHAA | HHAA |
|_________|________|
hA | HhAA | HhAA |
|_________|________|
ha | HhAa | HhAa |
|_________|________|

dbl het x dbl het (this square is a bit ugly)

parents | HA | Ha | hA | ha |

HA | HHAA | HHAa | HhAA | HhAa |

Ha | HHaA | HHaa | HhaA | Hhaa |

hA | hHAA | hHaa | hhAA | hhAa |

ha | hHaA | hHaa | hhaA | hhaa |

(You have no idea how many times I just wrote "haha" instead of hhaa, etc Also, typically you'd never write something like hHaA, dominant trait (Hypo is dominant to normal, normal is dominant to albino) should always be first. I do it to show inheritance.)

Het x albino
(I'm leaving in the hypo gene in this, just to keep it consistant)
parents | hA | hA |

hA | hhAA | hhAA |

ha | hhAa | hhaA |

:

>Trying to see if I understand this. If I mate my albino male to a hypo female will I get hypo's het for albino that if mated back to my albino would produce sunglows?

Okay, so it is hypo in boa constrictors. The answer is yes. See the post by b1r2s.

>What if I got a DH het for sunglow female for my albino male? or a hypo DH het for sunglow?

"DH het for sunglow" and "hypo DH het for sunglow" are the same thing. Though I prefer to use "hypo, heterozygous albino". BTW, if someone trys to sell you a DH het for sunglow that is not hypo, he doesn't understand the genetics. That is the charitable interpretation, anyway.

>My albino is only a few months old, I have a 100% het for albino female for him now but I'm trying to find out what other female I should purchase for him.

Getting a hypo female that is heterozygous albino would cut a generation off the time needed to produce sunglows. That would be a good buy if money and cage space permit.

Paul Hollander

"BTW, if someone trys to sell you a DH het for sunglow that is not hypo, he doesn't understand the genetics"

Lol, nicely worded I love it.

Assuming cage space is a given, if money is available, buy a super sunglow het albino (Super Hypo het albino)

This pairing will yield 50% sunglow and 50% hypo het albino.

well, you two have been very helpful, however I was sitting here laughing to myself this morning when I read the latest replies. I can't understand a damn thing ya'll wrote. I did catch the part about someone trying to sell a hypo that is not a visual hypo.
Unfortunately money is a concern, so I won't be buying a sunglow, but based on your input I might try for a hypo het for sunglow rather than just a hypo and jump ahead a generation in the sunglow process. Because I've kinda got lost in all the technical talk; just for clarification, I need a hypo het for sunglow or do I need Dh for sunglow and is that the same thing as hypo het for albino?

>Because I've kinda got lost in all the technical talk; just for clarification, I need a hypo het for sunglow or do I need Dh for sunglow and is that the same thing as hypo het for albino?

Sunglow is the visual effect of a combination of hypo and albino. Remember that genes come in pairs. Hypo shows if there is at least one hypo mutant gene present. A normal appearance means that there is no hypo gene present. Albino shows only if there is a pair of albino genes. Here is a breakdown:

hypo het for sunglow = Either a hypo gene paired with a normal gene or a pair of hypo genes. In addition, with an albino gene paired with a normal gene.

Dh for sunglow = A hypo gene paired with a normal gene. In addition, with an albino gene paired with a normal gene.

hypo het for albino = Either a hypo gene paired with a normal gene or a pair of hypo genes. In addition, with an albino gene paired with a normal gene.

For practical purposes, the three phrases mean the same thing. Such a snake would show the effect of the hypo gene only.

BTW, the normal version of the hypo gene is NOT the same thing as the normal version of the albino gene.

Clear as mud?

Paul Hollander

check out http://www.newenglandreptile.com/care under the reptile genetics section. This may help you a bit with reptile genetics.

as Paul has said, hypo het albino = dbl het for sunglow (in appearance) I think typically they'll qualify a homozygous hypo as "super"