Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I practice the husbandry for only arboreal boids(emerald tree boas) and maybe wish to begin with arboreal vipers, but not sure, worried about venomoids so I wish to be up to speed to better make a decision on this issue.
What is the truth about Gland removal? I know that venom aids in digestion of prey for all venomous animals or it just plain wouldent be there. I just want to know the facts about the surgery, how it affects the animal in the "longterm".
As for the hippies and the animal cruelty agrument, talk to your doc martin boot, or should i say the cow that took a tac in the head so you can look cool at the next phish show.(no offense to phish fans that are not hippies)BAsicly, PLEASE ONLY EDU-MO-CATED people, and please do not use the term "backyard butcher".

later
joe

Those that are pro-venomoid say there's no long term effect, those that are anti-venomoid say it hurts the snake in the long run. I've seen vets with conflicting views. I'm not sure how much venom helps digestion. Neurotoxic venom effects the nervous system. How is that aiding in digestion? Although some primarily neurotoxic species also have a nasty necrosis that accompanies the bite. The monocled cobra comes to mind. But I'm not a pro, they may also carry a hemotoxin mixed in there. I'm against it myself. To me it's like getting a pitbull and pulling the teeth out because you're afraid of a bite. You're probably just gonna have to make up your mind based on your own opinion. If your reasons for looking into a venomoid are because of fear of getting tagged then I would look into why get the snake in the first place? No reason to physically alter any animal for personal satisfaction. JUST MY OPINION!!!

I agree about the pit bull, but lets face it, is it different that we remove stink glads from skunks, Ferrets, ect.

As far as the dog issue, is it right to selectively breed dogs to get a agressive looking species that is kitten tame? we have done this through history, changing animals to better fit domestication is the "HUMAN WAY". I am not saying that i agree with this at all, wild is wild, but next time you pet your puppy on the head remember that he was made to kill and run in packs, we have just removed that part of the animal in order to better suite our needs(so you can have a fuzzy "handlable" pet).
this is an agrument that i have heard from alot of supporters of gland removal. Before you say it, I am aware that breeding is differnt than surgery. Unless you are married for a long time then breeding becomes to much like surgery.JK

The reason for asking the question is not to spark your "opinions", it is for everyone to relese the facts.
If you could not tell by the post, I do not care about your moral judgement against or for the surgery, just the facts you presented(and they are much appericated). So to Highlight further "I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON THE ISSUE, PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY, DONT WAST PRECIOUS MOMENTS TYPING HOW YOU FEEL, LIFE IS TOOOOOOO SHORT, AND I REALLY DO NOT CARE."

My reason for asking is simple, it is not that i am un capable of handling a animal with great care(venomous). I simply have found an animal that is exactly what i am looking for and the only one i have ever seen like it, but it is venomoid. This is where my concerns are placed. with the longterm survival of the animal i might drop some cash on.

CHEERS
J

There simply hasn't been enough study done, long term especially, to accurately predict the side effects, if any at all. Unless you read it in a scientific journal it's all speculation based on individual expierences and OPINIONS.

Thanks you for you fortitude, I agree that there is a lack of evdience either way to back everyone up, but i am just looking for the shining diamond in the rough that has delt with and either failed or had success.

Thanks
joe

the fact is this, there are snakes out there that captivate the interest of people who are unwilling to put their lives in danger to keep a "pet". if the surgery is done by a professional, aka a vet, then it is not that bad. of course you are going to have mishaps with snakes who's surgeries have complications, but you have with that humans too.

this issue is also largely dependent on what type of snake you are looking to purchase. if you're going to get a less venemous, non-lethal snake, then i wouldn't waste the time looking for a venemoid. however, if you're looking for something like a monacled cobra, i would highly suggest a venomoid.

pretty much it comes down to what makes you most comfortable at the end of the day. are you going to be happy handling a venemous snake? or will the fact that it can bite you but not kill or maim you make you more comfortable with its husbandry? answer that question for yourself and you'll have your answer on whether or not you want a venemoid.

hope this helps.

No reason to keet hots if not for personal satisfaction.

I have had long-term Venomoids (WDBs, EDBs, & Monocleds) in my collection for eight - ten years. I also keep HOT specimens of the same species. I do mainly feed them fr./thawed food because of the risk of a "stunned" prey item coming back around. I have also had HOT specimens receive fairly bad bites from rodents during or after a strike. There are many people out there doing "butcher jobs" but do a little research to find out what their version of the surgery entails. If they have no customers, they'll quite doing the procedures. It is best to use (or buy from) a Vet. who is familiar w/ the requirements of surgical recovery & has access to pain meds. & antibiotics. It is also best to get w/ someone who is familiar w/ the process. I also recommend not buying animals that have simply had there venom ducts tied - this is not always a 100% reliable = not worth the risk. Only trust animals that have their glands removed & ducts severed (tied). Also try to obtain animals that are C.b.b. - not WC or LTCs - as these are healthier specimens to start w/ & have a better chance at full recovery. Beware the haters as there are a few - mainly old-timers who deal in WC animals where they can make a few bucks raping the wild. They don't see a problem w/ that but perform a surgery that has no long-term effect on an animal & can save your life & you are the evil one. Surgeries are performed on humans & animals every day - some are necessary & some are not. Weigh the cost of having the surgery done right to the likelyhood you may lose your life or limbs & it is only logical. Ask anyone who has been bitten how much the hospital bill was!! Some people have kids - some people have kids that have been bitten by their Venomous pets. Some people have Venomous Pets that have escaped. Did you see that they just passed a new law outlawing Venomous in Dayton, OH because an experienced Venomous keeper made a split second mistake, was bitten, & DIED. A good friend of mine was just bitten by a Bushmaster & is in a coma - 48 vials of anti-venin so far. On his duaghter's birthday (during her party) no less. If you need a reference for someone who does the surgery properly contact me.....

As far as Venom being needed to aid in digestion, non-venomous snakes do just fine w/ out it.

I don't have to worry about my death or a costly hospital stay when I open my Venomoid cages. I also really enjoy being able to freely handle my 6' female Eastern Diamondback & my 6' Albino Monocled - they are "puppy dog tame". It seems as if most Venomoids get used to being handled & don't strike @ people anymore. I have had many Gaboons, Rhinos, EDBs, & Monocleds that refuse to be aggressive towards their handlers.

(disclaimer: I don't keep venomous or venomoid snakes, so I'm not an expert on the subject).

My first question would be, "is the venomous surgery 100% effective ... and are you willing to bet your life on it?" Even if the surgery removes most of the snake's venom glands, a not quite "venomoid" King Cobra or Black Mamba might still be able to pack a serious, even a fatal bite.

My second question is "how much pain does the surgery inflict on the snake?" Some bozo doing garage surgery with an X-acto knife is going to cause a great deal of suffering to an innocent animal. How would YOU feel about someone giving you a root canal with a power drill and suturing the results with dental floss? I'm not saying that all venomoids are made under these horrible conditions -- but a great number of them are. Before you buy a venomoid, you may want to ascertain who did the surgery and under what conditions.

Personally, I'd never own a venomoid. Because the surgery doesn't always take, I'd still want to handle the snake like it was hot -- and if I'm going to do that, why not just keep a hot? It's certainly easier on the snake -- and it keeps me from getting careless and making a stupid and potentially lethal mistake when I discover my "venomoid" ain't.