Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The latin names for the different sub species of all animals are changed so frequently that they are becoming useless and confusing to the hobbyist.

Hobbyists have already solved this dilemma in groups of herps such as rosy boas and ball pythons and I am sure that the same solution will eventually take hold in monitor lizards and other captive bred groups of reptiles.

The hobbyists came up with their own, non-latin names.

It might take a while for the names to take hold and become commonplace, but this form of identification is far more logical than trying to distinguish a particular sub species by an ever changing set of latin names.

When some scientist redescribes a sub species he usually gives it some fancy latin name that helps identify that particular sub group. This would be fine if the scientific world wasn't constantly changing the terminology.

Twenty years from today, a "caramel" ball python will still be referred to as a caramel ball python, but a V. g. flavirufus will probably have changed names two or three times.

Reminds me of that rocker, formally known as Prince.

All the taxonomy talk reminds me of the following words:

A map is not the territory it represents, but, if correct, it has a similar structure to the territory, which accounts for it's usefulness...

A. Korzybski, Science & Sanity, 4th ED., 1958

Neal
-----
pale reason hides the infinite from us

this is by far the best forum on ks...for intellectual density of content.
-----
Jeremy J. Anderson
snakepimp.com
gemstatereptiles.com
Of course it's my opinion, I said it, didn't I?
Breeding season is always just around the corner....JOY!!!

.
-----
Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

When some scientist redescribes a sub species he usually gives it some fancy latin name that helps identify that particular sub group. This would be fine if the scientific world wasn't constantly changing the terminology.

THE LAST V. ALBIGULARIS SUBSPECIES WAS DESCRIBED IN 1964! IS THAT A SHORT TIME TO YOU? THE ONE BEFORE THAT WAS 1934, AND BEFORE THAT 1893, AND THEN 1803.

RECENTLY THE MANGROVE MONITORS WERE SPLIT UP INTO SPECIES: THE LAST SUBSPECIES WAS V. INDICUS SPINULOSUS, AND THAT WAS 1941. BEFORE THAT 1839. THERE ARE 'NEW' SPECIES OF THIS COMPLEX RECENTLY - IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? VARANUS CERAMBONENSIS WAS NEWEST DESCRIBED, FORMERLY CONSIDERED A MANGROVE MONITOR FOR THIS COMPLEX...IN 1999.

THE TIMOR MONITOR IS GOING THROUGH A SIMILAR REVISION, WITH VARANUS AUFFENBERGI ITS MOST RECENT 'NEW' MEMBER...

SO THESE THINGS DO NOT CHANGE EVERY DAY OR MONTH OR EVEN YEAR - IT USUALLY TAKES DECADES IF NOT LONGER!

WHAT THE PET TRADES CALLS AN ANIMAL TODAY, THEY GLADLY CHANGE TOMORROW, VIA THE ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR AND GIMACKS - LOOK AT CORN SNAKES AND TELL ME THAT IS NOT CONFUSING, OR BALL PYTHONS?!!

NOW WHO IS CONFUSING WHOM? DO YOU WONDER 'SCIENTISTS' DO NOT OFTEN PAY ATTENTION TO THIS TYPE OF NAME GAME IN THE PET TRADE? IT CHANGES LIKE THE WIND!

Cheers,
mbayless

We can do even better than those examples...

The following have been suggested to be "new" species in classified ads or here after someone bought/considered the particular animal, even though they are, at best, color variations/morphs:

yellow savannahs
purple savannahs
green savannahs
hypo savannahs
high yellow niles
high blue niles
tame niles
etc......
-----
^x^ Bloodbat ^x^
Monitors, monitors everywhere
and all the food they ate.
Monitors, monitors everywhere,
their parents loved to mate.

HAHAHAHAHHA -

That is a darn good example of what I was talking about Bloodbat - how do the hobbyists keep it strait in their heads?
'You can call them anything they want' as the hobbyists say; they just do not wish to follow the 'scientific' level of it all, and make up their own...and they say the same about us! This is going nowhere fast...one name game is according to the mighty dollar, the other to what they look like, inside and out.
Which do you pick? Hmmmm....

Cheers Bloodbat,
markb

Its true.

Something else that I thought was kind of funny. My buddy imported the first black back balls (the ones that are said to produce all black balls, melanistic, in their second generation). He wanted to call them 8 balls because of the pattern but before that somebody called them black backs. I would just prefer to have a solid name, something we could all agree with in the first place then all of this.

The same could be said with salmon, there are several varieties of salmon and even more names.

andrew

You are mistaken, hobbyist make common names, like the examples you used. Those are akin to what local peoples call them.

You know like this, the natives in one area call this monitor, a barking toad leguaan. They did so because, when the run them over in the wet season, toads fly out of their mouths making a barking sound.

You may be right about consistancy. Some of these names will surely outlast many of the scientific names. FR

One being a color variation or morph, while the other being a locality.

Color/or morph would include, axanthics, anery, hypo, pastel, salmon, albino, so on and so forth. Those are given names such as salmons super salmons, pastels, jungle, etc. etc.

Most of us who have been in the hobby awhile know the difference, if you do not know the difference or confuse the two then well who is the one being silly now?

I do not believe this is what we were discussing below, I know it is not what I was discussing.

This thread has been moved from the Monitors forum.
-----
_____

PHWyvern