Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi Richard-

I hope you can help- I stumbled across-literally- a 22 inch Rubber Boa in late Spring. Problem is that it stopped eating in mid August-and has visibly lost weight.
It WAS eating-directly from hand or tongs- as soon as I placed the warmed (warm water) thawed pinky mice nearby- the snake would rise to meet it and start eating-while I held the mouse to it could get a grip. About 20 pinks per month.

I live in a temperate area-near the coast-and my house temp varies from 60-80 F
I set up a terrarium with lots of Moss (both damp and live- and the Moss found in bulk for planter ground cover. The snake has a variety of moist and dry "hides"-as well as open space. I also added a very low watt "warm rock"-which never seems to get more than slightly warm. The snake seems to use this for regulation-by adjusting the amount of body contact.

It appears healthy and it seems relaxed and "happy" to be held. Particularly if I let it smell my hand for a few seconds before I pick it up.
Should I try force feeding? Or just give it more time?
It has shed twice- once in late Aug- and last week. Any suggestions?

Thanks! Eric

Eric,
First, remove the heat source as this is the reason your specimen is getting thinner as it is exposed to this external heat 24 hours a day, a very unnatural situation. With prolonged, elevated body temperatures, your boa has been using up its body reserves.

If the pinky mice were 2-3 grams each and 20 per month and if your boa had fed for 3 months, it would be in robust condition had the cage temperature been around 70 degrees during daylight hours and cooler at night. C. bottae can carry on all life functions at room temperatures with the possible exception of females in gestation.

Second suggestion is to place your specimen in a container with 1/4" of water. If it drinks for a prolonged period, then it was somewhat dehydrated. Elevated body temperatures from the external heat source can readily cause the boa to become dehydrated. If after a few minutes the boa does not drink, then she is probably hydrated but I would suggest you repeat the soaking routine every 4-6 week during the fall and winter months.

I have always tried to mimic what occurs in nature. It is common to have the species stop feeding in Sept., something that probably occurs in nature as well. A few years ago I was down to maintaining three boas. But due to some special projects I am working on, I am now maintaining 6 adults, 5 subadults, and about 17 neonates (newborn boas). Most of those juveniles have not taken a meal, the subadults quit taking prey in mid to late August, and most of the adults quit early as well with the last adults to take meals was on Sept. 19th. I did get a surprise 8 days ago when three neonates each took a meal. However, all of them have since refused all subsequent offerings.

No need to try force feeding as that is a last resort. Boas commonly do not take meals for a good number of days before shedding. You might try thawing a pinky and offering it beneath a hide. If the boa does not take the mouse after a couple of hours, re-freeze the mouse and simply allow the boa to go through the brumation (hibernation) period for a few months.

I suggest that you place your cage in the coolest place you can find from here until early to mid March and into April if you wish. If kept at 50 degrees or below (but above freezing) the boa will loose minimal weight provided it is kept hydrated.

Richard F. Hoyer

Thanks Richard!

I really appreciate your help! As does "Winston"- the RUBBER Boa.
I put it in a 1/2 inch deep water in a large Tupperware container-after giving the water some time to equilibrate with room temp. I also tilted the container so the snake had the option of staying dry."Winston" explored-but kept it's head out of the water. The terrarium has a large flat shallow water dish- and I did see the snake drinking one time.

I also make a point of allowing the snake to adjust gradually to temperature changes- perhaps a holdover from keeping a saltwater reef aquarium (past) for 8 years. And especially with "pokilotherms"-if I recall the term from several UC biology courses.

I also approach slowly-and allow the snake to "taste" my hand before picking it up- it rarely makes any evasion attempts and seems quite relaxed when I do this.

I have an outside shed-and will move her out there once the weather stays consistently cool- a hot day in mid Oct is rare-but can occur. I take your point about providing a naural environment. I HAD considered setting my refrigerator at appox 45 F-and placing a "breathing tube" to prevent the seal from being complete-as a brumation spot.

During a recent hotspell, I set up a portable AC when I was away-or took "Winston" to work with me to enjoy the AC in my workplace.

On the subject of shedding- after the first shed the color was much darker- after the recent shed- last week- the color was back to the lighter tan-olive color that I remember from when I found the snake.

I am curious as to the your current study! Thanks again!!!!!

Eric

Eric,
Boas that are badly dehydrated will drink immediately. Those that are somewhat dehydrated will drink once they calm down. So if a boa does not drink soon after being place in shallow water, then chances are it is reasonably hydrated.

The next most important item I mentioned is to remove the artificial heat source as it can cause both dehydration and speed up the use of body reserves.

I have a variety of current projects involving Charina bottae all of which involve adding to our knowing of the species' life history. I first became involved with maintaining the species in 1962 and deciding to pursue research. So while holding down a job from that point until the end of Oct. 1991, essentially all of the information gathered was on the boa population that exists in northwestern Oregon. Upon retirement on 11/1/91, I began branching out and researching other pupations of the species. Most current projects deal with obtaining large enough samples from various localities in order to make comparisons.

My first such effort involved the 1993 - 1997 study of the S. Rubber Boa with Dr. Glenn Stewart of Cal. Poly, Pomona. During that study we confirmed my suspicions that the SRB was a dwarf form of the species. Since then, I have gradually worked my way west and north in S. Calif. confirming that this dwarf form occurs elsewhere in the isolated mt. ranges and mt. peaks of S. Calif. This information has taxonomic implications.

I also expanded my efforts in Oregon to include a couple of unique populations, one in SW Oregon and the other in E. Oregon. Information from those population can then be compared with similar information obtain from our local NW Oregon boas and the populations for which I have sufficient sample size in S. Calif. And thanks to my son in Utah, last year we began to gather information on the population of C. bottae that exists in the Wasatch Mt. range in Utah.

Since 1997, I have been trying to determine the extent of the dwarf form distribution in S. Calif. It is well known that the same species varies greatly in physical size in different geographical regions. However, it seems that little if any real research has been aimed at characterizing such size differences in discrete terms. So gathering the type of information that will allow me to define the differences between the dwarf and large morphs of C. bottae has been a primary goal the past few years.

My normal mode of operating has been to release all specimens where found since recaptures can provide a wealth of information.
Beginning in 2000, I began retaining specimens from selected localities in order to acquire the type of information needed to strengthen the dwarf vs. large morph scenario. Such information deals with growth patterns, the size at which males and females become sexually mature, and data on litters. In that light, I began entrusting specimens to my son so that the two of us could accomplish more than what I could do alone. Unfortunately, the Utah wildlife agency, acting on flawed information supplied to them by one or two informants, in early January confiscated most of the boas being maintained by Ryan We recently were informed that perhaps a large number of those boas have since died.

In the meantime, I have conducted some controlled crosses between the two morphs that have produced some interesting results. All of this information will need to be sorted out by those more savvy in taxonomy and genetics.

Richard F. Hoyer