Reptile & Amphibian Forums

my dad was camping in anza-borago national park, in sandiego last weekend. they were hiking in rocky areas around a place called fish creek road. they found a dead rubber boa, which had been dead for some time. it looked like its middle was crushed my a rock, or shot. it was preserved pretty well, but unfortunatly, he left it there. well, at first he thought it was a rosi boa, because thats theonly one he heard of from me. i thought from his description of where he found it, it probly was too. ya know, caught sunning in the rocks early morning by some jerk and killed. then he said it had no stripes and was brown colored. i showed him a pic of a rubber boa and he said thats what it was. is this their most southern rang? he said it was a foot long. could it be one of the dwarf sub-species? nick.
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0.0.37-blue lab chichlids
0.1.6-sandiego gopher snakes
0.0.1-cal. kingsnake
0.0.1-anole
0.0.2-f.b.t
2.3-coturnix quail
0.1-cockatiel
0.2-s. black widow
1.1(fixed) cats-eddie/buzz

Too bad there isn't a photo of it. I know Fish Creek pretty well and it's way too low for any Charina.

the head wasnt nearly large enough for a rosie. also, the proportions of the body width for length was that of a rubber. in my field guide it shows them turning up in small populations in that area. also, it could be one of the small populatons of dwarff rubber boas?....
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0.0.37-blue lab chichlids
0.1.6-sandiego gopher snakes
0.0.1-cal. kingsnake
0.0.1-anole
0.0.2-f.b.t
2.3-coturnix quail
0.1-cockatiel
0.2-s. black widow
1.1(fixed) cats-eddie/buzz

..I'm thinking of, that's just way too low and hot for any Charina. The highest part of the park would be up around Ranchita on S22 and though it looks somewhat "foresty" there, it's still way too low. Numerous creeks in the west end of the park have willows, oaks, and some small conifers but the nearest proper habitat to ABSP would be the Palomars, Cuyamacas, or Lagunas and I don't think Charina goes much farther south than the Santa Rosas or San Jacintos, which are closer to Palm Springs to the north. Really, it's only speculation about what it could be since none of us has actually seen it or photographed it but I wouldn't bet any money on it being a Charina. A shame, I'd be curious to see what it really is.

it was AROUND fish creek. it was in an elevated, rocky area with some dead trees.
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0.0.37-blue lab chichlids
0.1.6-sandiego gopher snakes
0.0.1-cal. kingsnake
0.0.1-anole
0.0.2-f.b.t
2.3-coturnix quail
0.1-cockatiel
0.2-s. black widow
1.1(fixed) cats-eddie/buzz

I will say that there are unicolor Rosy Boas found around Otay and Barrett Lakes in San Diego County, and in other areas in Southern California. They can easily be mistaken for a rubber boa. You might find it amusing to have a look at the National Autobon Society's Field Guide to California. In it (on page 259) they have a unicolored Rosy Boa pictured as a Rubber Boa. Basically, if (and I stress IF) you made this mistake, you would not be the first. I should also mention that in the "National Autobon Society's Field Guide to North American Reptiles and Amphibians" they did not make that error, and they actually got it right.

Nick:
Although I am skeptical about certain claims, I have learned not to altogether discount imformation that does not conform to current knowledge. However, Eric's input is pretty much on the mark.

The Southern Rubber Boa is known to exist in the San Bernardino and San Jacinto Mts. but has never been documented further south. Its known distribution in the San Jacinto Mts. has never been established as there are very few locality records and it seems that no governmental agency nor herpetologist has ever
attemped to determine the extent of the range in that region as has been the case in the San Bernardino Mts.

Even in the San Bernardino Mts., the documented distribution of the SRB has continued to increase over time with additional locality discoveries from time to time.

Even though the species has not been documented south of the greater Idyllwild area in the San Jacinto Mts., I would not discount that the species may exist in small isolated peaks further south.

I checked my De Lorme atlas software to check elevations in that region and see if I could find the Fish Creek to which you referred but could not find it without more precise informatio. As Eric mentioned, the species is usually found at higher elevations. Thus far, it is known from about 5600 -5800 ft. and above in the San Bernardino Mts. However, I suspect it occurs at lower elevations on north facing slopes at the west end of those mts. where searches have not been undertaken as sutable habitat occurs in the area of Lake Gregory and Cedarpines Park.

In the San Jacinto Mts., the SRB has been documented in the
Idyllwild area with that community being at about 5200 ft. One sighting is known at the outskirts of the west end of that community at somewhat lower elevation and here again, in the shaded, forested drainages to the west and northwest, I suspect the species may exist a bit lower than 5000 ft.

I see from my De Lorme atlas that Santa Rosa Mt. and Toro Peak just south of Idyllwild are above 8000 ft. If they have the same habitat type that occurs in the San Jacinto Mts., there is every reason to believe the species would occur in that nearby area. Further south, I noted that about 6-7 mile northeast of Warner Springs on highway #79 (and northwest of Borrego Springs) there is a ridge with a number of peaks above 6000 ft. to about 6300 ft. If those peaks have a good amount of pine (perhaps some fir) forests at the upper elevations, then there may be some chance the species occurs there as well. But if the habitat or elevation is not suitable, then the chances diminish with respect to the species occuring in any particular region.

But I should add that the species does occur in some very dry type habitats such as east of Big Bear Lake in dry juniper, pinion pine, sagebrush / grass type habitat. Same can be said for where the species occurs in the Scodie Mts. east of Lake Isabella and on the southern Kern Plateau in the vicinity of Kennedy Meadows. In those regions and elsewhere, the there is even cactus growning but both regions are around 6000 ft.

Last, ask your father what was the color of the snakes ventral surface. I am not familiar with the Rosy Boa but is it my impression that the species does not possess a yellow ventral surface and often Rosy boas will have some dark flecking on the ventrals or at least on the lower 1 to 3 scale rows above the ventral scutes. The Rubber Boas in all of S. Calif. are tan above (rarely darker brown) and have an immaculate, light yellow vertral surface with no dark flecking on the ventral or first 1 - 3 scale rows.

Richard F. Hoyer

if i can get my dad to bring me. im going chuck hunting, but ill check for the body, although most likely washed away in the flash flood my dad got stuck in. lol. but ill also try to do a lil night herping. thanks for all the imput. nick.
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0.0.37-blue lab chichlids
0.1.6-sandiego gopher snakes
0.0.1-cal. kingsnake
0.0.1-anole
0.0.2-f.b.t
2.3-coturnix quail
0.1-cockatiel
0.2-s. black widow
1.1(fixed) cats-eddie/buzz

just looked on claiforniaherps.com and found some pics of unicolor individuals from sandiego... ill have to show my dad. actually pretty cool lookin. thnx again for the imput. nick. p.s. check the site for california snakes, they are like the second on the list, neat lookin. anyone wanna post pics of their uniclor if they have one?
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0.0.37-blue lab chichlids
0.1.6-sandiego gopher snakes
0.0.1-cal. kingsnake
0.0.1-anole
0.0.2-f.b.t
2.3-coturnix quail
0.1-cockatiel
0.2-s. black widow
1.1(fixed) cats-eddie/buzz