Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hello, i'm writing a paper about keeping exotic pets and are explaining both sides for an ethics paper.i know that many rettiles with the proper care make really great pets. i would l;ike to use an example for the other side that is against keeping them.

which reptile has the poorest track record in captivity both for the general pubic and zoos.

which one has the leaste known about it, as in feeding reqs, tempretures, breeding, etc.

thanxs lot
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"I’m scared of those nasty big-eyed grey aliens, too. I think it’s that I don’t understand their motivations. I am confident of my ability to out-think, out-con, or if need be, tire-iron-upside-the-head demonic forces, ghosts and goblins, things that go bump in the night, etc. It’s the notion of something that doesn’t have any desire to talk to me except via anal probe that freaks me out"

Almost all crocodillians are problem captives for those not ready for the responsibility lack the knoledge and or space along with iguanas monitors and large boids do not do well in the wrong hands but when you think about all these species do great with responsible owners. however the wrong hobbyist who just spontaneously decide to own these species who dont understand the risks of the larger species expecially the large boids and crocodillians give the reptile hobby a bad name you should also know that because of this bad publicity we as reptile owners develop enemies such as the humane society of the us. a government. org. that in the end dose not even fund local orginizations if you like to find out more out about the negative effects of the humane society go to cornutopia.com or for more about ethics and responsibility see "guidelines for responsible herptile ownenership" an article by philippe de vosjoli in the 2003 "Reptiles USA" magazine.

Any of the large animals, whether they are turtles, iguanas, or snakes are homeless because of their size.

A big problem now is the carnivals with iguanas, anoles,turtles and rabbits as live prizes.

Cindy

Carnivals still do this? That's terrible; it makes more sense all around to use the stuffed animals.

I agree with the above posts but would like to add a new perspective. To begin, where do you live and what reptiles are allowed there? I would concentrate on these animals.
As for animals that are rare and not well studied; they are just that, rare and not kept much. Generally only experienced keepers will go to the lengths to import these animals.

I think that at the front of the ethical debate is the uneducated owner attempting to care for animals bought impulsively (without prior research) from a petstore. This problem is complicated when the animals involved are not good for beginning hobbyists (iguana's, monitors, burmese pythons ect)

Another important ethical debate is the rigours involved in the mass importation of reptiles. A perfect example is the ball python. This species is captive bred regularly and thousands upon thousands of CB animals are available for sale each year. Still, many more thousands are imported to supply the market of "cheap" wild caught animals for those not willing to spend a little more for quality. During this importation many more thousands die from the stress and crowding, and those that survive often die soon from the stress as well. It is hard to imagine that with the numbers imported how wild populations are affected.

Are you really writing an "Ethics Paper", or are just another humaniac trying to hurt our hobby that we love? It sounds to me that you are going to write your paper one sided against the ownership of herps. Why should we help you do that?

he could be but were not saying anything bad about are hobby we are preching responsibility.

Are you really writing an "Ethics Paper", or are just another humaniac trying to hurt our hobby that we love? It sounds to me that you are going to write your paper one sided against the ownership of herps. Why should we help you do that?

Believe me I hate humaniacs as much as the next guy. But the FACT is that responsible reptile owners make up the SMALLER part of the hobby. It's a secret the hobby would like to kick under the rug, but it has to be dealt with on some level. Ask any rescue operator, or experienced reptile keeper who works at a pet store. Most people that take herps home think "a heat lamp" constitutes a complete understanding of proper reptile care.
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Jesse Rothacker
Forgotten Friend Reptile Sanctuary
Find out how YOU can get involved in reptile rescue...
www.forgottenfriend.org

if i was a humaniac then why would i keep reptiles? or any exotics or non exotics for that matter.

im posting to gwet as many opinions on the subject as i can. most of the stuff thats been posted is covered by my other sources but i still like to ask people their opinions for ethical discussion papers.

it really is too bad i didnt see these post untill after i turned the paper in, there are many good examples used here ^_^

ashley
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"I’m scared of those nasty big-eyed grey aliens, too. I think it’s that I don’t understand their motivations. I am confident of my ability to out-think, out-con, or if need be, tire-iron-upside-the-head demonic forces, ghosts and goblins, things that go bump in the night, etc. It’s the notion of something that doesn’t have any desire to talk to me except via anal probe that freaks me out"

Ball python is included in CITES II species, so you can check the actual imported number on the below site.

I heard EU has a ball python farm in site to protect them.
Link

I run a herpetological society and we are doing an two educational displays at very large reptile shows next month. Our displays are dedicated to the promotion of education and responsible keeping. Green Iguanas, Ball pythons, Burmese pythons, and turtles are very very commonly abandoned or mistreated. Often times people will not realize exactly how much responsibility they are getting into. However, my organization is not to support regulations and restictions rather to support responsibility among reptile enthusiasts so there will not be regulations and restrictions on what animals can be kept. While permit systems seem like an excellent idea, many areas are not going to fund them and bans are a less expensive means for regulation. This is why understanding ethics within ourselves is extremely important. I believe it is possible and some day we will reach productive ground. email gmbrink@ilstu.edu if you would like more information about these shows or have questions reguarding responsible reptile keeping.

Disclaimer: This post is NOT bashing the reptile hobby. I love the reptile hobby. But these are some serious problems the hobby needs to deal with.

Hey I'm writing a couple papers on reptile issues myself. I'm certainly no humaniac, but the sad fact is that the bad owners in reptile hobby leave a pretty big mess to be cleaned up. What's worse, it's a lot harder to find a GOOD herp owner sometimes than it is a BAD one. I also run a reptile rescue, so I have to see the negative effects of the hobby on a regular basis.

First and foremost: GREEN IGUANAS. Ten dollar sticker price, thousand dollar investment. Most people aren't willing to pay. Terrible for the hobby. There are so many unwanted iguanas, it's almost impossible to unload one. Granted they make good pets for maybe 5% of owners, but in general people are unwilling to provide for their rapid growth, heat, UV lighting, humidity, and nutritional requirements. Number one rescue call for every reptile rescue in the country, I GUARANTEE IT.

Also quite problematic: Burmese pythons, red ear sliders, and other stuff that gets pretty big. Google "Burmese Pythons in Florida" and you will learn a lot about pet exotics released from captivity totally messing up the ecosystem. Florida actually has 47 non-native reptile species in the wild that don't belong there. Many other states do as well.

According to the US Fish and Wildlife Service, "Invasive species are the primary threat to ecosystems across the nation." Where do most invasive species come from in the United States? You guessed it....the reptile hobby.

So if nothing else you've certainly picked a rich topic. I'd like to hear what solution you come up with...keep in mind outlawing reptiles won't help much because many abuse cases come from people who owned stuff illegally anyway.

Email me if you'd like to borrow any of my work, or I can send you a couple links.
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Jesse Rothacker
Forgotten Friend Reptile Sanctuary
Find out how YOU can get involved in reptile rescue...
www.forgottenfriend.org

Jesse Rothacker

dearie i wished you posted a bit earlier, ive already turned in my paper. i wished i did it more specific on reptiles but i did it on the exotic pet trade as a whole.

i was writing more for allowing people to have exotics, but to have some species regulated or required education classes before the critter is allowed in that person hands.

i perticulary l;ike how flordias hot snake licences are done. so many hours with an experienced handler or the group you are keeping and (i think) only after they say you are ready can you go for a hot of your own.

if its alright with you hon, could i see the paper youve been working on? i'm always interested in a good read ^_^

ashley
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"I’m scared of those nasty big-eyed grey aliens, too. I think it’s that I don’t understand their motivations. I am confident of my ability to out-think, out-con, or if need be, tire-iron-upside-the-head demonic forces, ghosts and goblins, things that go bump in the night, etc. It’s the notion of something that doesn’t have any desire to talk to me except via anal probe that freaks me out"

Ashley and to all that replied to her post:

Yes, yes, and YES! We must encourage responsible exotic ownership. If we don't, our hobby that we love so much could be in jeopardy... if it isn't already. I guess you could say I'm one of the new guys (only been in the hobby for about 5 years), but I take pride in my animals and I enjoy educating kids about reptiles and reptile ownership. I love these animals and I cannot imagine myself without animals in my life, but I do know my limits. I have been tempted to buy certain animals like iguanas and retics (like most of you have), but I knew myself and knew the animals care requirements, and I stopped myself. And what sets us "responsible" reptile owners apart is that we KNOW what we are getting into when we buy these large and possibly dangerous animals. Take my Alligator Snapper for example. Before I even knew where to purchase the turtle, I KNEW everything there was to know about this species. I KNEW it grew to 200 pounds. I KNEW the turtles dietary requirements. I KNEW the species inside and out. And I knew what I was getting myself into, and I was prepared for a lifetime of turtle ownership with this single animal. THAT is responsible reptile ownership. Most people DON'T do that. They just go to the local herp shop and pick out the critter that they think is cool, but know NOTHING about. If people would stop and think before aquiring an exotic pet, the hobby probably wouldn't be getting the "abuse" it has from the "humaniacs".

Now to add my 2 cents....

I admit, I am not as informed about what is happening to our hobby as most of you are (like what the Human Society has been up to), but I am aware that we MUST do something to stop with "irresponsible" trend in reptile ownership. And in this herpetoculturists opinion, we MUST put a stop to wild caught animals. We have the technology to captive breed EVERY species on this planet, all we have to do is stop being so ingnorant and do it. This is coming from a guy that has had WC animals before and to put it blunt... they suck. Most WC don't do well in captivity and end up dead very shortly after the person purchases it. So why bother with them? Why take the risk of getting a unhealthy import when you could have a healthy and happy captive bred animal. That to me is a no brainer. Wild caughts belong in the wild, and why do we need them anyway?? We have literally THOUSANDS of captive bred animals every year! All we need is one 1.1 pair of wild caught animals of every desired "pet" species to produce a wealth of CB offspring for the herpetoculture community.

The bottom line is, if we want to HAVE reptiles in the future, we are going to have to start protecting both the hobby of keeping exotics and the exotics themselves in the wild. Thanks for reading.

Adam Dispenza
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ALLIGATOR SNAPPING TURTLE (Captive Bred, 4 1/2 inches)

You are correct that literally every species can be captive bred by dedicated individuals. Genetic diversity is important however and there is something to say about some wild-caught animals. In my opinion this should be limited to the very few individuals who actually have the background and resources to acclimate and contribute them to a captive population. For example; surinam toads are often difficult to find and are always wild-caught. It is difficult to breed them but not impossible. Wild-caught animals would need to be used by several keepers with unrelated stock to create a self sustaining captive population. Obviously with species that are more in demand, more WC's would be needed to create a diverse population.