Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi Guys, I dont own a viper but i had a question. Is it possible to have a snake de-fanged? Or have it's poison glands removed by a vet or something? I would love to own one of these beatufiul snakes but i couldn't run the risk of an escape or someone getting bit. Just wondering if it was possible.
-----
-Doug Daly

0.1.0 Leucistic Texas Rat Snake

I will answer anyway and I really hope to avoid seeing a long line of posts just because someone decided to try and ruffle a few feathers in here. Removing fangs will ultimately kill the snake. Not an option. Removing venom glands, while somewhat safer than a fang removal would be, is still not a respectable practice. There are many risks involved and the snake can easily be harmed or killed. Some people may disagree and state if the procedure is done correctly there will be minimal effects. I chose to not care to be honest. The reasons anyone can come up with for a venomoid surgery cannot warrant potential risk to the animal in any way in my opinion. I will also mention that people who are not fully prepared to handle the risks and do not have the facility or the means to care for a venomous snake, and are willing to shortcut their way into keeping them, do not have the necessary respect for the animal or the maturity to deal with the situations they will put you in. Despite what some people may say, you still run high risks if you were bitten by a snake which has supposedly had its venom glands and/or ducts removed. It is very hard for anyone to argue that many vipers are extremely beautiful. Pictures of them are beautiful and they are beautiful in a zoo or other wildlife facility. Space ships, vampire slayers, dinosaur bones, and rainbows are beautiful but since I do not have the means or ability to acquire them, I must admire them in another fashion. Get the hint? And since this topic always seems to come about and make for a long list of time wasted, we can expect to see some more opinions both in support and against some things I have to say here. Enjoy the ride.

First off, i was dead serious. I have no knowledge of the subject and was just asking a question. Im not trying to stir up any arguments i just wanted to know about it. You really need to calm down. First in defense of the whole poison removal thing (now remember i dont know the side-affects that you mentioned yet failed to describe). Suppose the snake gets loose somehow. You forget to lock the cage, someone else gets the cage open, whatever that's not the point. The snake finds you son or daughter who dont know anything about the snake (they are too young to understand) they piss the animal off and get bit. The poison kills them. If the snake had it's poison ducts removed the worst that would happen would be an infection. Or your going to pick the snake up and it suddenly strikes at you and envemonates you. That's not good. If a specialist is to remove the poison glands what side-affects happen? Now euncentes... Calm down, take a deep breath and dont have another heart attack.
-----
-Doug Daly

0.1.0 Leucistic Texas Rat Snake

___________

signature file.

Edited on March 27, 2005 at 10:05:39 by phwyvern.

Just do yourself a favor and don't ask this question on the forums because people are going to rip you a new one. Run a search on the forums for venomoids and you should get plenty of responses. Also www.snakegetters.com has some graphic descriptions. This is not a debate you want to get in with anyone on the forums.
-----
Jon

thanks for your help and for not going crazy over a simple question.
-----
-Doug Daly

0.1.0 Leucistic Texas Rat Snake

___________

signature file.

Edited on March 27, 2005 at 10:04:10 by phwyvern.

Well Doug,
you sound like you have good intentions but I feel that if you have kids ... a family ... the facilities, man power, or know how ... you should probably think about sticking to non-venomous.

Dave
-----
"there can be only one ... one reptile that is"

I was just stating this topic will get a much heavier flow than I mentioned. I hoped to cover things to avoid seeing another long list of people taking up an entire page. The immorality of a venomoid surgery is just as you stated. You you forget to lock a cage, someone else gets in, or you go to pick it up and it bites you...not acceptable situations. If you are keeping a venomous snake or a snake which has surgically been altered to no longer be venomous, you need to keep it in a secure and locked room AND in secure and locked enclosure. The room must not be a room able to be escaped by snakes (which is hard to do). Most people are not able to do this and would like to take short cuts just to have a pretty snake. Short cuts which ultimately leaving the law to make decisions for us. A big problem with venomoid surgery is finding a professional qualified to do it. Many are not done legally and putting trust the snake is still not lethal is on you. But we assume you do have a legal professional to do the surgery. You still run risks of regeneration sometimes. We can then just "assume" this does not happen and you "assume" the surgery goes perfectly and there are no infections or problems. There are many people who feel the effects from not having the aid of venom to digest prey will have severe effects on its life. With vipers especially. Venomous snakes really are for people who have an extreme dedication to their care and a means to keep risks of escape down to where only a talented criminal could get into the facility and release snakes or a natural disaster causes escapes. Anything else is pretty much unacceptable. Picking up snakes without proper use of tools and proper experience is also unacceptable. I am sorry I hoped the post was not serious but people (especially kids) know how to push buttons and will say controversial things just to watch the wars from it. This topic always ends up with a huge list of opinions and causes fights between people when people get overly heated and attack individuals. It wastes time and I hope this thread will be different. Hope This helped.

Snakes don't have "poison", some snakes have venom though. Not getting into the venomoid issue.

It is illegal to perform an adenectomy or ductectomy in some countries; however, it is possible to do what you are asking.

ductectomy is the complete removal of the ducts leaving the venom glands. This type of surgery is frequently done on specimens with large venom glands in order to maintain the head shape. ex: Gaboon Viper

adenectomy would be the complete removal of glands and ducts.

On this website, you can find vendors that sell "Venomoids" which might be what you are looking for. However, please be aware that a VENOMOID can still bite and there is a great possibility of getting an infection.

Best Regards,

Herpetology

Thank you for another great example of how people on kingsnake.com are of no help to stopping the recent bans. Another excellent post to show people how irresponsible we can be. Nice work!

Best Regards,

Eunectes4

that performing either of the two venomoid surgeries is ILLEGAL IN THE US unless performed BY A LICENSED VET.
It seems that the basement hackers don't quite comprehend that......YET.

I failed to mention that. I apologize.

Here is another perspective. I love big cats, they are one of the most beautiful predators in the wild, but I would rather see it in its "true" form in the wild than declawed, defanged, and rendered into some "safe" housecat that I can keep chained or enclosed in a cage, how to keep it from breaking your neck with a "playful" swipe, well thats another risk.
The point is this, venomous reptiles were made that way for a reason, aside from the digestive issues that could arise, it is the way they are meant to be. A venomoid snake may not inject venom but it could still cause a nasty secondary infection through its bite, or how about this the fang(s) puncture an artery (on a small child, well it would not be pretty).
Without going into the whole debate, I would offer this; Mentor with an institution in your area that keeps venomous snakes, offer to clean cages, prep food, whatever it takes as a volunteer, acquire a venomous snake when you feel "qualified" to maintain it safely, treat it like a nuclear bomb that must not be allowed to detonate or be detonated by ANYONE in your home, do not tell everyone on gods green earth that you keep venomous snakes (criminals might target you, and if they get nailed in the process YOU are liable.) Even a random burglar can sue you for damages if they get bit by your snake while they are breaking into your house, no ifs, ands, buts, or maybes.
Lastly, even venomoids are regulated, just because its been rendered "harmless" does not mean its a garter snake. If it is covered by law or banned in your area then you cannot have one at all void or no.
I am not trying to lecture you, rather I feel that as an "old timer" I can impart some wisdom that is sorely lacking or not made available to the newer generation of people who have the same interest we all had when we started back in year 1 .
It is different now because of the numbers of people involved, number of species available, consequently the number of accidents increased causing widespread clamping down on the whole business of keeping reptiles of any kind. Unless an educated, mature, and dedicated force stands up against the current trend, zoos and "professional" institutions will be the ONLY places to see venomous reptiles in the not too distant future.
There is nothing wrong with asking questions, the only stupid one is the one that doesnt get asked.
Good luck if you truly love venomous snakes show them the respect they deserve and keep them intact.
Cheers
Lateralis