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Last year I got an Albino Limburg coastal boa from Gary Keasler. It was an adult male. I had a couple of limburg het for albino females that I bought from some him the first year year he produced hets. I think over ten years ago. Well I bred the Albino male with one of the het females, and two anery's and two ghosts popped out. What are the odds? One anery was deformed and was put to sleep. The 2 snows and the remaining anery are all males. I am on cloud nice. Hope you enjoy the pictures...Ric Blair

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Congrats , very nice my friend .

Have good one and cheers .

jason

Does Randy know yet? A better question would be, does Gary know yet?

Jerry Hartley
www.LocalityRosys.com

I would say congratulations but that would seem an understatement. I believe that Randy was working on producing locality coastal snows to unleash in 2008.

You are a very lucky man indeed.

and Gary Keasler, some of the best Rosy officianados in the country. They are all working toward producing the snow boa's. I would not have produced them (Shear luck) without them. Randy congratulated me and was very sincere. I hope to be able to do a breeding loan with the males, as they have large adult female hets and double hets, plus others on the way. These are not only some of the best Rosy breeders but also some of the nicest people you will ever meet in your life. Great to have nice boa's and great friends. Ric Blair

what a great day!
Ric can you post other pics of the snows and maybe a description of amount of color and pattern visible? Also what was the explanation from Randy of how both your snakes were carrying the the anery/snow gene

I am going to wait for them to shed before I take another picture. We are all still guessing as to how this happy accident happened. Thanks...Ric Blair

Are you sure they are not just fadded albinos? I have heard of some really fadded coastal albinos. Do you plan on proving them out by breeding them to coastal aneries to show if all the babies come out as aneries? If those are the coastal snows I must say that I am am a little dissapointed in their apperence. But Its nice to finally have some on the ground so I can stop hearing phrases like "just wait for the Limburge snow to be born" in my discussions with others about the different lines of aneries or axanthics. This stuff is what makes breeding morphs so fun as sometimes the results pose more questions that answers. Good job.

Ryan Young

I did not think my first post went through and I read more of the thread before my second post.

Sorry Ryan

A AXANTHIC,I HAVE SEEN A BUNCH OF RANDY'S PURPLE MONSTERS HE JUST HAD THEM ON MY TABLE THREE WEEKS AGO AND THEY ARE DAY AND NIGHT TO THAT SNAKE RIGHT THERE.YOU HAVE TWO FADED OUT ALBINOS AND A NORMAL.SORRY MAN.

NOT TRYING TO RAIN ON YOUR PARADE AND I WISH IT WAS TRUE BUT A SNOW JUST WOULDN'T BE ORANGE?AND A AXANTHIC WOULDN'T LOOK LIKE THAT.

SORRY FOR ALL THE CAPS BUT I JUST NOTICED AND IAM NOT GOING TO RE-TYPE ALL THIS.LOL...

SHANNON

axanthic anyways.You would only get amels and snows in the litter,cause the axanthics would have to be snows because both parents are amels already.
Shannon Brown

If I understand the original post correctly, it says that he bred an albino male to a het albino female. So if they were both het anery, it would be possible to produce anerys. That is a very big "if" though. It is still obviously a serious long shot, and it will take more for me to be fully convinced that they are actual snows. More pics would help!
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James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

posted on the classifieds. They have a very definite pattern and they look orange to me in the picture. These should even be darker patterned and more orange as the Limburg strain is definitely deeper oramge. I have lots of both phases here and I love them both. The pictures I am taking are right up close, and with great lighting. When you hold these in your hands and look at them in normal lighting with your naked eye, they have an opalescent or a pearl look, and that was right after they were born. They looked translucent as if you could see into them. The next day they changed as the skin was drier and not quite so clear. That is why I want to wait for them to shed. If I take a picture of your face close up with extreme lighting, your complexion will look pretty bad even though you look pretty sweet to me under normal circunstances, LOL. You will see every pour and pimple with my lighting, that you do not see with your naked eye under normal circunstances. When you hold one of these in your hand and see them with your normal vision they are incredible. If they are faded albino's then they are amazing. The orange looks more like a pinkish hue with the naked eye. I compared the anery's I got from Gary Keasller this year with one of the dark ones that were born here and they did not look the same, but there is something different looking about this animal also. Something different is going on with this snake. I have a normal looking one that was born from an albino to a het and it looks totally differnet from this animal. I will take a picture tomorrow with all 3 dark ones in it, the limburg anery, the new one and the one normal looking one. You will see what I am talking about. Remember that the female was born over ten years ago and it could be a different anery look that was in the mix. Look at all the different phases you get in hypo hondurans. Even the snows all have different looks, some are more pink, some more yellow. The anery from the other phase out there doe's not look like the Limburg strain anery I believe. Am I right on that account? Maybe they are faded albino's. There are at least 3 different color phases of San Felipe ghosts also. Wish you were here so I could show the snakes to you up close and personal buddy. Anyway if they are not snows I sure like them anyway. I will have to call them pearls, LOL. Talk at you later...Ric

Good Job, Nice animals! Isn't it fun to have something different. Makes it one of a kind if you buy other peoples hype and probably more valuable since it would take them forever to make a Rick Blair special. Good Job, Well Done. I would rather have a Rick Blair special than a normal snow any day...........Bill

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James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

True. It is just the end of the line as far as genetics but can be cleaned up to look lucistic which is cool. I think I would pay 10 times the price for an all black rosy. To me black has infinite posabilitys.

Well its about time. For a few years now all I have heard about was the great anticipation for this snake. It looks just as I thought it would. I think this goes a long way towords showing that the Morongo animals are true Axanthics ( thus the more white snow ) and that the coastal animals are Aneries. It may also show more of the diffrences between T 's and T-'s in the snow animals from the diffrent combos thus far. With all the hype I must admitt I am not to impressed with the coastal snow. Anyways my feelings aside congrats on producing them. I am just happy they are finally on the ground so I can stop hearing " just wait the Limburge snow is coming ".

Good job Ryan Young

Although it is always difficult to asess from a single photo,
I find it interesting that the sibling anery in the picture does not look like the very blue grey anery's i have seen from Randy Limburg. It does however look alot like the anery line of keith Carlson.

That's just what I was thinking this morning when I finally saw this post.
Terrific luck! It's always great to see new morphs pop out.
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Thanks,
-JC
Rosyboas.to

1.1 San felipe (CB'93)
0.1 hypo San felipe (CB'98)
1.0 hypo San felipe (CB'03)
0.1 het hypo San felipe (CB'04)
1.1 hypo-line San felipe (CB'98)
1.1 hypo Borrego (CB'99)
0.1 hypo Borrego (CB'05)
1.1 albino Whitewater (CB'02)
1.1 double het snow rosy (CB'95)
0.1 anery rosy (CB'05)
1.0 snow rosy (CB'04)
1.1 Joshua Tree (CB'96)
1.0 Bagdad (CB'99)
1.1 Harquahala Mts. (CB'04)
1.1 Limburg albino (CB'02)
0.1 Limburg albino (CB'05)
1.1 Limburg anery (CB'05)
0.1 Boa constrictor (CB'92)

I would agree that it does not look like the coastal aneries that I have seen pics of. I would dissagree that the Anerie (if it is?)in that pic looks nothing like the keith carlson animals I have seen. I think the animal in that pic has way to much red tones to be a anery. I could be wrong but I know it does not look as anery as the ones I have.

Thanks Ryan

...so how far away are you from plugging your anery's into limburg albinos?

It is hard to tell from one pic, but judging from that one pic, the anery does seem to have too much red in it to be an anery. However, there seems to be some variation with the Carlson anerys in that some look much more than others. I do think that the Snows pictured here do look like snows and remind me of the the Keith Carlson snows that I have produced (except for the eye of course).

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James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

Congradulations! You do mean Snows, not Ghosts, Right???
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James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

I would really like to see them after they shed out. I would suspect that they will darken up considerably (I know a couple of my babies have).

Out of the 3 different lines of Snows that have produced, I would have to say that I still like the Snows that were created with the Morongo anerys best. My preference is based solely on the pics that AAA Reptile Supply were using in their ads over the last couple of years. I happen to prefer the solid black eye against the white snake. I think that it sets it apart and makes it look less like an albino/amel.
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James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

as any of us who have taken pictures of our snakes knows, it is extremely difficult to capture the actual true life appearence. The white snakes shown in the AAA ads last year certainly did appear white. I do not however, know anyone that has seen those snakes in person. where did they go and why haven't we seen any since? I find it difficult to choose a preference of the snow morphs without seeing them in person.

I am not sure I ever will breed a limburge to my Morongo Axanthics. I think that the results would not be worth the effort. I have also seen the AAA Snows in person twice when I got my Axanthics. They looked like the pic and show almost no pattern and color. I saw them again as yearlings and they looked pretty much the same as they did as babies. The reason that you do not hear about them is when they were made public many on this forum made a stink about them claiming who cares wait for the Limburge snow and the owner is also not much of a peaple person very recluse like. Here is a pic of my female Axanthic poss. het Amel.

Thanks Ryan

Again my opinion is based entirely on the pics that I have seen in the past, and if I were to see the animals in person, it may change. I think the Carlson Snows that I work with are incredibly beautiful, and I am quite partial to them as well.

Now that I have thought about it, I actually think it is too early in the game to call Rick's new babies Snows. First, I think we need to see how they look after they shed, and then after that, When the time comes, I think they should be bred back to a proven anery to see what they produce.
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James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

aa

a double het expression came from a homozygus and a single het pairing? Maybe I missed something along the way here. Don't get me wrong, I like Ric quite a bit, but I think he's just misinterpreting his results. Come on, he's an alterna guy anyway...lol. Seriously, I can't come up with any way that it's possible, especially considering the age (time he got) the female het (for albino?). Are we to think the ax was already established in the line back then? The male was more recent so he could have been a homo/het, but not the female. Unless the female was ax and het(amel). I've been waiting to post on this just to double check myself, but I think there's a lot of "congrats" being handed out for something that can't necessarily exist by what's given (known) of the parent animals. I'm with Shannon on this one. If I am missing something, please point it out so I don't have to give myself the "donkey of the week" award!....LOL.

Eimon

PS- hey Ryan, now that's a pic of an axanthic Rosy.....nice!

Sean, not that tough to figure out...In 1997 randy produced double hets but didn't know it at the time. His first anery baby showed up that year but remined a question mark until reproduced in following breedings. littermates were sold to gary keasler simply as albino hets, which subsequently produced possible double hets without keaslers knowledge. Blair could have concievably been the recipent of long odds(possible double hets) and way big good luck(beating odds with 2 snows and 2 anerys in same litter. Amazing!

If Limburge produced double hets in 1997 than why has he not produced any snows himself? Limburge has had 8 years to do it and that just blows me away. I understand that rosies have a low reproductive rate but the other 2 lines of snows did not take that long to make once the breeders new they had Aneries. I also want to know why are there so many stories about were the limburge Anery came from? Did it not come from the same local as the Albino?

Ryan

Ok, except in Ric's original post he says he got the hets from Gary when he "first" produced them "over 10 years ago." That kind of throws off the time line (big time), and why I don't see the genetic combination happening (available) for him to produce the pictured offspring. Also, the "anery/axanthic" looks pretty much like a "normal" coastal, especially compared to Ryan's snake. Like I said, I'm certainly not trying to rip Ric, I just can't find the necessary "building blocks" needed from what he has said so far. But, I do like all the Rosy thought activity and discussion going on lately. What ever starts it, I think it's been good, fun and informative for everyone.

Eimon

This whole thing has created a ton of different opinions on if these animals are in fact “snows”. I’m led to believe that they are not based on the whole genetic equations posted by folks that truly know how all that works ( I for one am a big dummy when it comes to all that stuff ), and the conversation that I just had with Randy Limburg.

Randy quoted that he acquired the original male albino (as a neonate) in 1993. He then put the word out to close friends to collect females from Temecula. In the process of getting females, a friend (that is not in to snakes) found a large Rosy, put it in a bag, and left it on Randy’s front porch for Randy to find when he returned home that evening. To Randy’s surprise it was an odd looking (i.e. color) animal, even for a Temecula animal. Thinking it might be an anery, he bred it to normal looking females to produce hets in 1994 in hopes to prove that it was in fact an anery. At that time there was a lot of skepticism that it was an anery. During this period of time the albino male was growing like crazy. In 1995 the first het albinos were produced. (The first available albino hets were sold to Ric in 1996, and had nothing to do with the anery project.) As Randy put it “the odds are like that of winning the lottery”. Of the het anery’s born in 1994, a pair went to Gary Keasler. Now, without talking to Gary (which I will do tonight) I don’t know if the albino that Ric got from Gary was het or possible het for anery too. Anyway, in 1997 the first anery’s were produced from the hets, proving the gene out. Also in 1997, the first of any female albino’s were produced to breed to the anery’s.

The snow project was started in 1999. Randy bred the original w/c anery male with albino females, which only produced infertile egg masses. He tried again in 2000, producing only infertile egg masses. In 2002 using the 1997 c/b anery’s and the 1997 c/b albinos, Randy was able to produce the first double het for snow animals. In 2006 the first “Limburg Snow’s” will be produced. Currently Randy does not believe that the animals that Ric has are “Snows”, just very light colored albinos. He is as we all are, waiting with anticipation to see what the animals will look like after shedding. It may sound strange, but Randy gave me the authority to post this information, as he himself does not use the internet, and likes to remain a private person.

Jerry Hartley
www.LocalityRosys.com

I am just excited to have the baby snakes. I hear the terms not going to rip on Ric and I wonder why anyone would anyway. You know me Jer, if they are not snows it is no big deal. I am not worried about the dollars as I am already financially in good shape. Not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes either. I do however like to see the posts that are well thought out, and I do respect everyones opinions. I am enjoying it immensely. If they are not snows then you know we will just have a good laugh, a beer, and go from there. You guy's can have a laugh at my expense next time we get together. In case anyone is wondering I have over 100 Rosy boa's of my own. If anything this produces good foder for conversation. I am learning a lot more about the different morphs and where they came from in the posts. I am sharing what I see, and experience, with all honesty and integrity. You that know me well, you would not expect anything different, right? Anyway I am interested as well as anyone as to what they are now. I was convinced they were snows but now I am waivering. That is until I pick them up and look at them again, LOL. Thanks for posting my friend...Ric

Keep us updated with more pics (especially after they shed). Thanks, and congradulations on some real beauties!
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James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

on the boas. It's all good....Ric Blair

I know you have a nice collection of rosies (I have seen your site many times). Have you hade any luck with any of your other rosy projects? I would love to talk rosies with you sometime or just exchange a few e-mails. I am at pch101@cox.net
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James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

I used the term "rip on you" to hopefully let other people know that I was NOT questioning your credibility. In the past a couple of people have gone there (for their own personal reasons, and not anyone on this forum), so I wanted to make that clear if possible. We love ya here, bro! Besides, only Shannon could get away with being that blunt, but then again he collects "stephensi woodini"....LOL. I am only trying to understand better how the 2 parent snakes may have produced those offspring. In general, there hasn't been any where near as much experience shared with Rosy genetic functions as there has been with Colubrids. Being that they are a much more primitive snake, I often wonder if some of the genetic mechanics may work a little differently in them. Snakes should be snakes, but who's to say. It's now recognized that there are 4-6 different incompatible amelanisms in Cal Kings, and who really knows about hypomelanism(s) yet. Discoveries and discussions like this will only be helpful in the long run. And I don't think anyone will have a "laugh at your expense" because that's not what it's about. The picture as it is, is certainly thought provoking and warrants talking about it. I have always appreciated your style of openness regarding snakes you have or produced. I also know you have kept and bred a lot of Rosys for a long time, but damn you, you have found, received, or produced some of the most insane alterna that your other snakes get a little fuzzy in the brain! Cheers, and thanks for letting us all have the chance to throw in our couple of cents worth of opinion. It IS all good.

Eimon

should have been> "NOT rip on you"

First off I want to apologize to my friend Ric if I came across negatively in any way. That was not my intention. For those of you that know Ric would automatically know that this was not about being famous or about any monetary value, it was just to let the rest of us Rosy freaks enjoy some awesome animals. Ric is not that kind of person. He probably has one of the most eclectic snake collections in the US if not the world. The intent of my previous post was to establish some dates and transactions that took place from Randy as he understood it. Upon calling Gary Keasler last night, I learned that the albino male that Ric got from Gary was in fact a possible het. The other tid bit of information that Gary gave me was that Randy also had more het anery's born the same year (1996) that Randy sold het albinos to Ric and Gary, and could have potentially messed up on which was which. So with that said, there is the chance that Ric did in fact produce "snows". The bottom line is that we won't really know until next year when Randy produces his "snows".

Ric,

Again there was know intent to prove you wrong in anyway, it was just because there was a lot of dates and circumstances in this thread of posts that were not accurate. Not that any of it is really my business, I just didn't want to see anybody discredit what you just wanted to share with the rest of us without the fact's. Regardless, they are incredible animals and if there are not "snows" they would be awesome to breed to the anery's to make some "snows".

If I offended anybody with my previous post, I sincerely apologize.

Jerry Hartley
www.LocalityRosys.com

I cannot think of a better animal to breed to a proven snow or anery to make hets. From the pic they are really REALLY nice looking Rosy Boas!!! They look as close to being snows as I have seen.
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James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

A LIKELY POSSIBLITIY EXISTS!!!
nice going RIC, would you pick up a lotto ticket for me tomorrow, thanks

thats the kind of input I like to hear. Shannon is my pseudo little/big brother, LOL. So I thought his post was also great. Everybody has been wonderful in all the posts. I like to hear the negatives and positives, how much people like them or don't. I am just enjoying the topic and the input. It would be cool if they were snows. We will have to see how they turn out after they shed and as they grow. I wish that some of the great rosy boa guru's (Keasler, Limburg, Montoya, Hartley and others)lived close to me or visa versa. Then I could just drive over and get more opinions and free beers. It's killin me man. (just a little added drama, LOL.) I even offered to send the two male albinos back to Gary so he could breed them to his double hets, and told him he could keep the whole clutches. He was gracious enough to turn it down and tell me I should get half the clutch if that is what we did. What a great bunch of guy's in this forum. I want to get some more pictures out soon. Thanks to all...Ric Blair

Hi Ric. That is an awesome looking snake. I hope you have success getting them to produce. Anyway, I just purchased a CB 04 0.1 PioneerTown locale from Jon Murray. He stated he got it from you last year. I would appreciate it if you could give me information about the lineage of this rosy. It is a beautiful snake. I noticed that your pricelist has PioneerTown locales on the high end of the scale, just under the San Gabriel Mtn. locales. Any information you could provide on snake from the location I could use, or on this particular snake. Do you have males from this locale available very often? Please respond to me at trshimmin2@msn.com.

Thanks
Tony