Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Below are few Matt remarks made by Matt Harris perhaps he could provide a few more insites regarding the market place and maybe answer a few questions.

"Yeah, I was away on business for most of the summer but have recently imported some neat new Bothops. Was gonna sell some of it, but as I see some others are bringing the same species in and screwing prices, I'm keeping most of everything for my own collection. Just not real interested in getting into the headaches of becoming a fly-by-night reptile dealer and dealing with others who are undercutting prices. " Matt harris

So you were mad because the prices were to low " screwing prices " ok...................but according to who? Because you got a little shipment of animals you felt that it was up to you to dictate the market value? And naturally you weren't interested in becoming a " fly-by-night reptile dealer " Puh-leaseeeeee

EE By the way what Fly by Night Dealers were offering " neat new Bothops " ? EE

"I've seen some for prices that are marked up 400%. Being that I imported them and know what I paid, I think some people are just trying to pay the rent. "Matt Harris

and what did you have mind when you were going to sell the "neat new Bothops" Let me guess ...I`ve seen the adds you run on kingsnake WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Above the dealer cost. I know what you pay to. EE

"AND...I was quite amused at the postings of Costa Rican boas for sale at Daytona that were "PICK OF THE LITTER" LOL!! These snakes came into the country 3 weeks AFTER i had imported a dozen boas for myself and a friend!!! GIMME A BREAK, and then the ads listed them for sale WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Above the dealer cost. " Matt Harris

So you got a dozen boas. And now your an expert on the boa market. GIMME A BREAK. Puh-leaseeeeee! Im sure the animals you got were worth what You paid for them.Let me fill you in.Some of the adds you are referring to are no doubt mine. The animals in those adds were excellent examples to the serious collector /breeders that bought them and worth the asking price.Just because you place a value on an animal doesn`t mean that same isn`t worth more or less to someone else. These guys all know what dealers pay they also have all seen plenty of Costa Rican boas.They know exactly what their getting. So first your mad because you didn`t make out on your " neat new Bothops " now you want to try crying because guys are getting more then you . Puh-leaseeeeee .I have to wonder why someone who just keeps snakes for the love it is always complaining about what someone else buys or sells THEIR animals for? Ernie Eison

Matt, he does have a good point.
I set the prices on my lanceheads or other snakes I breed to what I think THEY are worth.
If people choose not to buy them, then fine. The price rises the longer I keep and feed them, (more maintenance, food etc.=larger size)
There are a few other people who import from the same folks you do in Costa Rica, so it's not like you have a market on them.

The value YOU place on animals is, what YOU think they are worth, regardless if you know what they paid for them.
Just because the other person marks his percentage up two or three times what you know he paid for them, doesn't mean he is a fly-by-night dealer or a person taking advantage of the market, it means he is setting a price that he is willing to let them go for.
I know when you read this, you'll understand my point and hopefully Ernies.

Randal Berry

Yes, I've sold some animals at higher prices...I.E., Bothrops asper has always been $150-200. But other Bothrops weren't marked up that substantially.

When I imported B. asper, the prices I set were originally based on prices set by others in the market(which at that time, Dean Ripa was the only other person with asper). I used his prices as the basis for what I would sell at..why? Thats what I thought they were worth and if you use a little logic A)Bothrops aren't a snake that is a high demand snake, like for instance an eyelash viper, so the market can't be flooded all at once, or you'll shoot yourself in the foot (it's likely better to hold them back and sell as yearlings for a little more, than dumping babies all over the place)If I had a nickle for every email I got with keepers wondering why their baby aspers were dying I wouldn't have to sell any and b) I'm not dropping prices on them, because the snakes, as adults, can be pretty dangerous, so I don't want some kid forking over $75 for one on an impulse. If I look at B. asper now, Hmmmm, lets see, Mark Lucas...$150-175. At Hamburg last weekend, $175..for a tiny baby that judging by how skinny it was may not be feeding.

All other Bothrops I've had(which I think I've sold less than 2 dozen) were gauged around that based on what I, and I alone had to pay for them. The low prices I was referring too were specifically asper which Ernie was selling for as little as $60-70(i.e. wholesale price) at Daytona....per some friends of mine who went to Daytona....this (I think) was 2003, when I had a litter of captive born aspers, not imports .

As for boas....So what, they're Costa Rican. THey're still Boa constrictor imperator. They're still the same animals as Honduran boas, Nicaraguan boas, whatever...they may look a little cleaner, but not that much. If people will pay it, so be it, but I'm not going to mark them up that much just because they're "COSTA RICAN" Then again, I wouldn't pay a nickle for a pie-bald ball python either....well, maybe I would as a feeder for cobras or Cribos.

Ernie, you may or may not know what I pay, but I'm not sure we're getting them at the same price(due to volume). It really doesn't matter.

Randal, as for marking them up with age, I totally agree. That's pretty obvious.

MCH

Matt , Hummm.......I guess your Fly by Night reptile Dealer remarks were directed towards me then. If that`s what you think then you could use some education .Lets begin .There`s nothing fly by night about me. A quick review in your own words you brought in some neat new bothrops and because you paid more in Costa Rica then I was selling them for here you got stuck and made a sour grapes post about how the market was screwed .For you maybe. Not a word in that post about the animals ,concerns about the danger of some kid impulse buying or anything of that nature only your complaint about not being able to get your asking price.It was about the money that you didn`t make. I sold CB asper for 60.00 at Daytona because that`s what I wanted for them Period. They were all very nice animals and also fairly common so I asked what I thought was a fair price. Because you were trying get three times what I was asking for the same animals and couldn`t isn`t any concern of mine and if you think your animals were worth three times as much that`s only your opinion. For me. It doesn`t matter what you, your buddy`s , Dean ,Mark or anyone else sells their animals for it`s their business ,their animals and I could care less . I`m sure not going to act like a no class cry baby because I don`t agree with their prices. So you thought the animals were worth more then they were based on someone else`s prices maybe next time you want to try and make a little change on the side you should do your homework better that way you won`t get stuck and shoot yourself in the foot. The best advice I could ever give anyone who wants to try and hustle a few surplus animals on the side for extra cash with out knowing what their doing is don`t. And com`on who`s kidding who that`s exactly what you were trying to do. So it didn`t pan out lot`s of new guys make that mistake consider it a lesson learned and don`t cry about it by trying to knock the other guy or their animals you only make yourself look bad.

As for the Boas once again you went out of your way to try and make the other guy look bad by making a post implying that people are getting ripped off by being over charged . Why? Jealousy, greed got stuck again ? Why not post it on the boa forum? What did you end up selling your 10 boas for ? To you one boa is like the next after all Costa Rican boas, Honduran boas, Nicaraguan boas, all the same to you. Maybe to a guy who dosen`t have any idea about boas they might be but to some one who knows what their doing the differences are night and day between not only all of these localities but also in what makes one specific animal more desirable then another. Who cares if the latin is the same the animal is different. Believe me the boa guys know what`s up and what they want. The prices I charged for my Costa Rican boas were based on more then just the fact that they were Costa Rican Boas it was because of specific individual traits .The overall quality. I guess someone who feels that there`s no difference and wouldn't pay a nickel for one over the other wouldn`t notice but to those that do know well ....your the sucker it all depends on how you look at it . Again the true motive is clear. PUHLeeessssssssssssssssss Ernie Eison

Ps " Then again, I wouldn't pay a nickle for a pie-bald ball python either....well, maybe I would as a feeder for cobras or Cribos. " Matt Harris

I find that hard to believe. Based on past performance I think you would start posting on the Ball Python Forum complaining how Pete Kahl is ruining the market for you. LOL

Ernie Eison