Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi Everyone:

I need some help. (yeah, many have thought this for some time)

I found the normal Venomoid Inc. booth and the newly added [bleep] booth right next door. As much as having them at a "Venomous show" bothers me the [bleep] Booth had pictures of people "freehandling" many of these altered snakes. Not the sort of image to promote venomoid or not.

I suggest a email campaign to the show organizer showing our displeasure. Not that he will not let them attend the next one but maybe not allowing full size posters of "freehandling"

Maybe if we look at the vendors list and email them too maybe they will pressure the organizer to do something.

Give me some feedback on what we should do...

Al

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Marriage changes passion;
Suddenly you're in bed with a relative.

Al,
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it is a good idea that you contact vendors to put pressure on the promoter, or in your words, "show organizer".
Here's why, if a show promoter bends to someone or everyone just because he/she doesn't like a certain vendor, you, (the public) would not have a show to go to.

Promoters are in business to sell tables to vendors. They (we) have to try to accomodate everyone. We do not take sides or go by what is politically correct or whatever. Promoters are in business to make money. We have to rent the building, pay electricity, rent the tables, book the dates, pay for advertising, so on and so forth. It is a lot of work.

There are vendors who we do not let vend, but we are NOT influenced by what the vendors say. We prohibit people from vending (and it is our call, not an email campaign) who we find are questionable or people who owe us money from previous shows or people who have ripped us off.

Our policy is that we DO NOT allow venomoiders to vend. That is OUR call, if David Hess wants to allow it, then that's HIS call.

I am a show promoter (www.Texasreptiles.com) and I understand and respect what other promoters allow. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it, but I respect them because I know what hard work it is to put shows on.
So, really what I am saying, is a promoter cannot stay alive and put on shows for the public just because you or someone else doesn't like a certain vendor.I'm sure the "venomoiders" are doing business, otherwise they would not continue to do that show.

I suggest, if you don't like the Hamburg shows because they allow venomoids, then don't go. (they won't miss you)
Shows go on despite YOUR feelings about that particular show.
Hell, I don't like the war, but it still goes on.

Randal Berry

I have to agree with Al on his post. Having posters of people freehandling venomoids can clearly send a wrong message. Imagine if someone was attending their first show looking to buy their first snake. They walk past a dealer's booth which is selling venomoids. They see a large poster of a guy freehandling a gaboon viper and remark about how beautiful the snake looks and then move along checking out other booths. A few booths down, they find a vendor selling hot gaboon vipers at a really low cost and notice that it is the same beautiful snake they had seen that guy holding on that poster earlier. They buy the snake and take it home. The dealer assumed that any one who would buy a gaboon was already familiar with the fact that it is hot and neglects to inform them of how dangerous it is. The buyer remembers the poster of a guy freehandling the same snake and thinks that he just bought a harmless non-venomous snake. The next day, the buyer decides to hold the snake just like that guy was doing in that poster and gets nailed by a hot snake. What kind of message do you think that would send to the public who already has a negative image of venomous keepers?

Even if the snake were a venomoid, a bite from it can have very serious consequences. Some snakes carry septic bacterium in their mouths which could cause gangrene. A bite like that might result in an amputated finger or even a hand. This would still have a negative impact on venomous keepers' reputations.

And by the way, Al never asked for a boycott of venomoid dealers at shows, he stated that there should be some responsibility on the part of dealers who sell them. Just like there are responsibilities for hot dealers, there should also be some guidelines for venomoid dealers as well.

Who in their right mind would want to buy a butchered venomoid any way? That's like buying a Corvette and having the engine removed because you are not responsible enough to drive such a fast car. If you are not responsible enough to own one, then don't get one.

There has been much discussion on another site with the "creator" of [bleep] about voids. I am not sure why he is promoting them the way he his but he is. There is another site allowing the posting of this guy's banner ads......money driven I am assuming.

I think we need to come together as a group rather than ignore venomoids. It's plain wrong for the hobby especially when you see pics of folks free-handling venomous species....it just gives the wrong idea to folks among many other negatives.

Any ideas on how to combat these guys?? Because if we ignore them they aren't just going to go away.

Re-read my post. I stated I was against venomoiders vending at MY shows.
I wouldn't allow such posters either.
HOWEVER, every promoter should have the right to invite anyone they like to do their shows. This is America isn't it?
If you do not like certain vendors at shows you attend it's really very simple; avoid those vendors or don't attend the show.
I highly doubt Mr. Hess is going to be pressured by an email campaign by folks trying to have a vendor "blackballed". If he does, then he might as well let all of the anti-venomoiders run his show for him. I don't see that happening.
Randal

Are people really so stupid that they would hold a hot gab like your describing? Shouldnt the seller at least ask if the individual buying the snake has experience with hots? That kind of thing is expected with other snakes...burms for example.

Hey guys...

I asked for discussion and not for a "Fangs out",free for all. No reason to chew on each over this issue, just lay out your position and the supporting fact as you see them.

Randal, Thanks for your input Your position from that side of the issue is good to have.

Al
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Marriage changes passion;
Suddenly you're in bed with a relative.

..whatever personal views we have of venomoids, the show promoters shouldn't be expected to take a stance on who they should or shouldn't sell tables too. SO long, as their isn't a blatant safety concern, its not for them to say the person can or can't sell venomoids. I don't personally like them either, but if I wanted to convey the message on the evils of venomoids, I'd set up a website with some facts about it, OR better yet....BUY A TABLE at the show right next to them and distribute information as too why venomoids shouldn't be allowed. The number one point I would stress is that, venom gland removal isn't a genetic trait....its not passed on to the offspring. Keep in mind, their only goal is too make money on the inadequate skills of novice keepers.

The only way you will stop them is too educate handlers BETTER, so they aren't getting bit and have the necessary skills to handle a fully hot snake, thus eliminating the need for unskilled keepers to purchase an altered snake.

Excellent point Matt!

Yes...very good point Matt.

Al
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Marriage changes passion;
Suddenly you're in bed with a relative.

Should it be up to the organizer to take a moral stance and ban them? Probably not. Should it be up to the organizer to make each venomoid dealer provide paperwork proving that each venomoid they sell has been surgically altered by a LICENSED VET? Definitely. Why shouldn't they? We all know that very few, if any, of those snakes sold have been done in A LEGAL WAY. Thus making it AN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. They make it a point not to sell any species that are endangered or species native to Pa, so why shouldn't they make it a point to sell only venomoids that have been done by a Vet and have appropriate paperwork?

such a caustic issue, I would simply boycott voiders and try to educate as many as I could about how WRONG it is. As long as people are willing to pay for voids, the bleeps will continue to provide them...and the sponsors will continue to sell tables to the providers. Its not about the love of the animal anymore its about $$$$ for a portion of the demographic that is involved in this field nowadays.
Empty tables=lost sales/profits and there are more than enough dolts out there to justify letting a void artist set up his wares at a show. Even defanged snakes draw attention, even more so when some idiot is free handling it, and that draws crowds.
My solution is I dont go to shows that allow voids and I dont support people or businesses that promote the practice, but of course Im only one guy.
my2cents
Brett

I will boycott any shows that have voiders there as well and let the promoter know why. If he gets enough people saying the same things then maybe he/she might think twice about letting them set up a table. Hopefully.... collectively we can make a difference.

Brett
Northern Cal