Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been moping around the house since losing my female grandis and my hubby tried to cheer me up by bringing home a pair of P. Laticauda Laticauda. They are supposedly a male and female but I'm not 100% sure - one is definitely male, but the "female" isn't as clear cut. I have them in a 30 gallon tank for now with lots of plants, bamboo and corkbark. The male appears to be mating with the smaller, apparent female - jerking head movements etc. and she has some bite marks and minor swelling on her neck. How can I distinguish between agression and breeding behavior? If they were peaceful in a 10 gallon tank, why would they have problems in a much larger tank with many more hiding spaces? My male grandis is visible to the p. lat's and he still wanders around his cage calling to his missing mate. Could this be stimulating competition in the male p. laticauda? I suspect my instinct to seperate them is just an over reaction to losing my sweet Athena not too long ago. I don't want to seperate them if they are just doing what comes naturally, but I don't want one to get seriously hurt either. Any advice?

PS I have been unsuccessful in my search for an adult female grandis. Anybody have one they would be willing to part with? She would have a great home with a big cage, lots of love & attention and regular vet care. My vet said husbandry wasn't an issue in Athena's death. He said she had perfect weight, strong, healthy bones and nice calcium sacs. Very sad... I'm willing to pay premium $$$ for a healthy gecko.

Thanks,
Lisa
apollolisa@azwebdevs.com

First let me say how sorry I am for your loss. I've been thinking about how things went since your last post.

Would you be able to post photos of the underside of your P. lat. lats? That's really the only way to tell the sexes. If they are male and female, maybe the problem is just the stress of their new environment.
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Lisa

1.0.0 P.m. grandis (Linus)
4.3.0 P. standingi (Toby & Kona and their 5 babies)

I agree with gecko girl. Basically you need to check the femoral pores of each while they are on the glass. Are they both the same size? We are talking about two adult laticauda right? Adult males will get a little bigger than the females, but not much. If you have 2 adult male laticaudas in the same cage you will know it. One will never be seen and will soon be harrassed to death if the cage is small. An adult female in the presence of an adult male will sometimes be the victim of male agression, but usually its courtship and mating related.

Also, I would say the grandis being visible isnt contributing much to the male's agression toward the female, but who knows...

A couple of things that I have done to ease the agression when multiple animals share the same enclosure are:

- provide more than 1 feeding spot
- provide more than 1 basking spot
- several hiding spots

This will reduce direct competition for vital resources.

laticauda are just mean sons a [bleep]es!!! My buddy dbaker and I have raised laticauda and grandis for a few years now and have been breeding them like crazy. They are a lot of fun to work with. We recently sold of the last of our laticauda collection, partly because they are so agressive and cant be housed together even from birth! Lately we have been working with the neon or yellow-headed day geckos (Phelsuma klemmeri). They are very friendly towards eachother and can live in big groups. They are also very very beautiful and are not shy of people.

Joe

Pics are our adult male laticauda and some baby klemmeri

Thanks for all your advice. I think they are 2 adults. The pet store said they were, but you never know if they really know or are just guessing. The smaller of the two isn't alot smaller, but definitely smaller.

Based on your advice, I added some extra bamboo and foilage so there would be more hiding and basking spots. The male seems to be better with the apparent female, so hopefully it was just stress. I'm still a bit worried because the apparent female hides an awful lot. I got another tank set up and ready just in case I have to move one, but I guess I will give it a bit more time.

Your pictures are awesome! Extremely beautiful geckos. The baby klemmeri look a little bit like fish until you look closely!

Thanks again for all your help and advice. I really appreciate it!

Thanks
Lisa

Thanks so much for your response and your kind words about Athena. I miss her so much. She was the greatest gecko - with a sweet and playful personality. She was really vocal too. Always "talking" to Zeus - her mate. Every time I see Zeus going to her favorite bamboo tube, carefully peeking inside and calling for her, I get really sad. It's hard.

I tried taking pictures of the lats through the glass, but they didn't turn out. I don't want to stress them out any more than I have to so I am not going to try and catch them. It probably is a male and female though, because the male's pores are pretty evident, but not the other one. I'm just used to bigger geckos and lizards, where it is much more apparent! I don't know if it's time or the extra plants and stuff, but the male is mellowing out a bit. Hopefully I won't have to separate them.

Thanks again,
Lisa

Lisa,

Also check to see if you can see a the bumps of the hemipenes just below the cloaca. I don't know much about the smaller species but also, the males have the yellowing around their pores, which is pretty evident after about 4-5 months of age. That may help to determine whether the other one is a male or not. Also, can you tell if there are chalk sacs?
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Lisa

1.0.0 P.m. grandis (Linus)
4.3.0 P. standingi (Toby & Kona and their 5 babies)

Lisa,

You're very welcome on the advice And thanks for the compliments.

Geckogirl is right on about the inner thighs of the male being very orange, where a female golddust will just be light yellow. If the one you know for sure is a male is even tolerating the presence of the other one and not trying to kill it - its a female. If she is hiding a lot she may be gravid. Is she always hiding? Does she come out in plain sight of the male without being attacked? So long as the smaller one is eating and has access to heat and UV there is no need to separate. I'd guess you've got a m/f pair.

Joe

PS - laticauda breed like crazy! You should get her a sanseveria (sp?) to lay her eggs in. Heres what they look like (sorry -pic taken at night)

If you want to find a female grandis, your best bet is to check out the "classifieds" right here on kingsnake.com. You can almost always find good quality grandis there. A lot of times they're being sold as pairs, but often you can get an individual adult female for 80-100 dollars. Be careful not to get a wild caught (WC) import. They are all over... Make sure its a captive bred (CB) animal. You definately need to get a mate for that male of yours now! I think you have the first documented case of reptile depression! Plus - its really fun to breed them. The babies are amazing! If you decide you want a good quality baby, my friend and I will have some available soon for $50 each or $80 pair. If I were you though Id go get an adult female and make your own babies. Its very rewarding.

Good luck!

- Joe

We like to give ours controlled amounts of direct sunlight. I personally feel the animals do much better because of it. Pictured is one of our gravid females sunning herself a few days ago.