Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just got back from a scuba diving trip in Phuket, Thailand (see more in the field herping forum). While hiking in the jungle I caught this little guy in a bamboo thicket, but I have no idea what species it is. Anyone know?

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1.0 Sandfire x Yellow Bearded Dragon - "Irwin"
0.1 Albino Black Ratsnake - "Misty"
0.1 California Mountain Kingsnake (multifasciata) - "Bandit"

Trimeresurus venustus.
NOT kanburiensis!
Hope this doesn't start a flame war! LOL!

Randal Berry

Hey Randal:

Wrong on both counts!! LOL It's Cryptelytrops venustus...LOL

Flame on bud!!

Great find and beautiful specimen!! We should all have such good luck on fireld trips!

Al

WW's Systematic update page

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"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

i'm just curious, al. but, what is the common name?

thanks.

Al,
I thought Cryptelytrops only applied to the Green Treen Pit Viper complex, i.e. albolabris,erythurus, popeiorum, etc.?

Maybe Wolfgang Wuster will jump in here and straighten or sort this out!

Randal

Shame it's wrong!

The snake is actually a male of a member of the popeiorum complex, which was described a year ago by David et al. as Trimeresurus fucatus, and would, under the Malhotra and Thorpe reclassification, be known as Popeia fucata. These were until now regarded as a southern population of Popeia/Trimeresurus popeiorum. Distinguishing characters from venustus include the lack of dark spots on the supralabials, the small white spots along the vertebral line and the very clearly defined postocularstripe with the white line at its lower edge.

>>Al,
>>I thought Cryptelytrops only applied to the Green Treen Pit Viper complex, i.e. albolabris,erythurus, popeiorum, etc.?
>>
>>Maybe Wolfgang Wuster will jump in here and straighten or sort this out!

Your wish is my command

More seriously, Crytelytrops includes kanburiensis, venustus and purpureomaculatus, as well as some of the uniformly green Trims (albolabris, erythrurus, macrops etc.), but not some of the other green species such as stejnegeri and popeiorum, which are in different genera. For a summary of the reclassification of the Trimeresurus group, see the link below.

One recurring theme in Trimeresurus group systeamtics is that different colour patterns in Trims have evolved repeatedly and convergently in many different lineages - the resemblance between Popeia fucata and Cryptelytrops venustus, as shown in this example here, is one obvious example, as is the fact that Popeia poepiorum and Viridovipera stejnegeri are virtually indistinguishable except through their hemipenes (and DNA), even though they are only very distantly related. On the other hand, some forms that are very dissimilar (e.g., erythrurus and purpureomaculatus) are very closely related and genetically hard to distinguish, despite conspicuously different external appearances.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
Venomous Snake Systeamtics Alert

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WW Home

Thanks Wolfgang

Cheers!

Al

0.1 Crytelytrops purpureomaculatus say cheese!

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"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

Please tell me Pope's Pitviper really isn't now classified as Popeia popeiorum! Sounds like a line out of Bach's Magnificat or something.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

>>Please tell me Pope's Pitviper really isn't now classified as Popeia popeiorum! Sounds like a line out of Bach's Magnificat or something.

LOL - 'fraid it is Popeia popeiorum according to the Malhotra and Thorpe reclassification. At least it trips off the tongue rather more easily (and causes less keyboard wear) than Cryptelytrops purpureomaculatus... Also, if the Trimeresurus fans think they have a hard time with weird generic names, they should take a look at some of the generic names resurrected for some of the Asian ex-Elaphe... some of those are seriously scary!

Cheers,

WW
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WW Home

Thanks Wolfgang for clearing this taxonomic nightmare up! LOL!
I was mistaken when I thought the "green bamboo" vipers were still classified as Trims.
Gumprecht, et.al. might not agree with the recent change, AFTER their wonderful book "Asian Pitvipers" (which by the way WW wrote the forward to).
Now, if we throw Vogel into the mix, he may come up with even a newer classification! LOL!!!!!!!!
Me? I still call Green tree Pythons, Chondropython!
Some things never change, I guess I'd better get with the program!

Randal Berry

It's SO obvious... It's a canebrake.

NO! it's a Timber!
hahahahahahhahahahahahahaha!

>>Thanks Wolfgang for clearing this taxonomic nightmare up! LOL!
>>I was mistaken when I thought the "green bamboo" vipers were still classified as Trims.
>>Gumprecht, et.al. might not agree with the recent change, AFTER their wonderful book "Asian Pitvipers" (which by the way WW wrote the forward to).

Gumprecht et al.'s book was written before the Malhotra and Thorpe reclassification came out, and therefore stuck with the "old" arrangement. AFAIK, Gumprecht et al. do now follow the new classification, wherteas Vogel's group does not.

>> Me? I still call Green tree Pythons, Chondropython!
>>Some things never change, I guess I'd better get with the program!

Here's a clue: it's a canebrake - Crotalus horridus, period.
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WW Home

So you are telling me that this is Popeia fucata??? And you are 100% sure??

Jesus. LOL
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- Andy Gottscho

1.0 Sandfire x Yellow Bearded Dragon - "Irwin"
0.1 Albino Black Ratsnake - "Misty"
0.1 California Mountain Kingsnake (multifasciata) - "Bandit"

Awesome!!! Thanks a lot!!!!

I am so stoked to have found this snake, the pictures do it no justice at all. The problem is that the flash totally screwed up the colors. However, when I turned off the flash, the shutter speed slowed down to make up for the low light in the rainforest understory, and my photos came out blurry even though the colors looked right. I wish I had brought my tripod, then I would have had awesome pics!

This was a pretty mellow specimen too, it wasn't jumpy at all. I was able to slowly manipulate it onto a stick for the pictures. The first time I have ever caught a venemous snake. Makes me want to keep a pit viper as a pet, LOL. Maybe when I own my own house I suppose. I guess in the meantime I'll stick with the kingsnakes and leave the venemous ones for field herping. LOL

Thanks again guys!!
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1.0 Sandfire x Yellow Bearded Dragon - "Irwin"
0.1 Albino Black Ratsnake - "Misty"
0.1 California Mountain Kingsnake (multifasciata) - "Bandit"