R.K. I am ready to get off of this conversation because of the tenor it took. Yes I made a comment that could have been taken as a put down, but it wasn't--it was just observation based on years of experience with respect to nature. So I am going to continue to recommend ants and yes a mixture of occasional insects as I stated before. Actually I can appreciate your perpective and opassion, I would definately explore including having a 3 or 4 year old non-ant diet animal medically comapred to a ant fed specimen to see if there has been any degredation to the organs by this.

Now I am not a scientist but I am very much an observer and reader R.K. And while your primise is fine with me--I do want to say that most of the sudy's (scientific) and observations (Go back to hobart M. Smith or before Ditmars, etc.) have all observed that "in the wild" ants are one of the or the prefered meal of horned lizards to a more or less degree depending on specie. I assume if you've been raised in our school systems then you may or probably accept evolution as a viable model, if I am wrong correct me--but given the scientific method, I would think you could not just cast away the evolutionary and natural history facts about these lizards?

I think if you read Richard Montinucci or even look at previous posts from one of our best authorities on Hl's (Dr. Lester Milroy III) I think you'd have to at least admit that there opinions were formed by science as well. Lester works for the state of California as a biologist and Hl's is his specific expertise - in California he's the man or at least one of them anyway.

Also some of the stuff you alude to at the web-site as a good start, but maybe that it's not scientific, if you look at the ant chart and species that is scientific completely. I think it's good to have people such as yourself willing to challenge or come with new ideas. Many of us have heard this before but the fact that you want to take it to a higher level is good, I just don't want you to throw away the baby with the bathwater because actually the burden of proof is on you...

So now if I can be of assistance or help with some ideas about the protcols and end result goals that might be considered I would be glad to help, I think this is my last post because I am more interested in learning at 56 I am still teachable, also one last thing how many years have you been into horned lizards and also what state do you hail from? I am from Texas now but spent much of my life in California. Cheers!
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Phrynosoma.org

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