Terry:

I hope you have a great time in Arizona. We got our Nor'easter yesterday but it wasn't the apocalyptic storm that was hyped. Just messy and inconvenient.



I guess splitting the beauty snakes is one of those lumpers vs splitters tugs of war. If corn snakes and fox snakes are different species then why can't taiwans and cave rats be too? But then I always ask why is a northern pine and a baja gopher still one species? Too deep for me.



Best regards

John















>>>>Sue:

>>>>If they keep shifting everything to Gonyosoma we'll have to rename everything the Racer Family. I'd be surprised if taeniurus went to Gonyosma but hey, what do I know?

>>>>

>>>>John

>>

>>

>>John, you know a lot. That's why your gut tells you it aint gonna happen. Beauties are a ratsnake, not a racer. However, the situation does point out the fact that there is likely some kind of relationship bt. the ratsnakes and Gonyosoma and probably Coelognathus too. I've always said all these genera are part ratsnake, part racer. That's the way the ancestors were.

>>

>>The controversy is in the species, Orthriophis taeniurus. The species is extremely variable, and it's likely the southern forms belong to a separate species from the northern forms. In other words, ridleyi and grabowskii probably should be in another species, while taeniurus would keep all the northern forms, including the blue beauty. We have discussed the blue several times through the years, and it was decided that they were likely exported from Vietnam, and that's how they got their name. Their range barely enters Vietnam, if at all, imho. I'm not the expert, just what the known facts seem to support.

>>

>>Later (I'll be in AZ tomorrow)....Terry

>>

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