>>The funny thing is after all his claims about how the proposal for including aves within repltilia was rejected by most, I decided to pull a couple of my old herp texts off the shelf and see what the experts think. According to Zug (1993) aves is ranked within reptilia, same with Pough (1998). So who are the people who have rejected placing aves within reptilia?>>

Ever heard of ornithology? Ever heard of Ernst Mayr, an ornithologist, among other things? Most ornithologists still consider Class Aves separate from Class Reptilia, for example. Find me an article or book in which S. J. Gould classifies birds as reptiles. There isn't any.

Have you ever read any articles within Copeia, Herpetologica or Journal of Herpetology? I don't see any article about "avian reptiles" within the covers of these journals. If birds are indeed reptiles, then bird biology should be taught by herpetologists in universities. The most recent edition of the fiel guide "Reptiles and Amphibians of Western North America" excludes birds. Have you ever heard of Dr. Robert C. Stebbins, herpetologist?

Did Pough or Zug include birds or any aspect of bird biology in their texts? If you don't have a copy of R. L. Carroll's "Vertebrate Paleontology and Evolution," then please go to the library. Turn to page 624; it reads "Class Aves". Turn to page 615; it reads "Class Reptilia."

Ignorance is not power.

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