Right now these are all classed as strictly hernandezi ( as Montanucci spells it ), and only those in the Pacific NW ( Pygmys ) are regarded as douglassi. That is what Montanucci is working on, but something is going to need a new species name, or we are going to end up with more hernandesi subspecies I guess. After getting a few different examples of these from NM, I see that those I have seen from northern NM have cranium and bodies that look very much like the little NW douglassi, and I have seen this other I have from west-central NM which has a much more rakish/rearward facing and more pointed occipitals and less keeled dorsal and fringe scales.



I do see differences. These examples like this one Jeff posted look just like big versions of the Pygmy SHL, so I guess maybe they shuld be regarded as P. douglassi, and the Pygmy SHL regarded as their little brother subspecies, with a proper subspecies name.



>>I might be wrong but this is an example of the short horns I have seen that are more in the formerly douglassi mode, and while if it is a short horn it is all concluded under hernandesi, any one who handles these lizards knows that the hernandesi has a different frill, different color pattern and different horn arrangement. I know a hernandesi when I see one, but I also know there are several short horns that have been posted on the internet that I have argued are indeed should not be included under Hernandesi, and it will be interesting to see how Richard comes down on these as well. Cheers both of you!!!!

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>>www.phrynosoma.org
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www.groups.yahoo.com/group/HornedLizards

www.youtube.com/user/PhrynosomaTexas

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