return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research  
Click to visit Raging Rodents
This Space Available
Contact Sales!
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Reptile Super Show Pomona California . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake.com at Pomona Reptile Super Show . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - Jan 17, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - Jan 18, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Herpetological Society Meeting - Jan 23, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  PACNWRS - Jan 24-25, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - Jan 24, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Tucson Herpetological Society Meeting - Jan 26, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - Feb 04, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - Feb 15, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  PACNWRS - Feb. 21-22, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - Feb 21, 2026 . . . . . . . . . . 
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
full banner - advertise here .50¢/1000 views
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
pool banner - $50 year

RE: Breeding weight for zonata

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Mountain Kingsnakes ] [ Reply To This Message ]
[ Register to Post ]

Posted by: CKing at Fri Apr 24 02:08:39 2009  [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by CKing ]  
   

>>>>>>Therefore the habit of the older, more "wily" snakes to retreat into the deepest, most inaccessible crevices can only be the result of natural selection brought on by human collectors, but not the result of predation.>>

>>ONLY?? That is pretty absolute for a hypothesis you just thought up in your head. Does not fit though with observations that large adults and especially the females are "wily" even in remote locations with no evidence of collection pressure. On the other hand, I have seen a lot of zonata with injuries and scarring no doubt from attacks they escaped.
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Rick Staub

You are correct. It is a hypothesis. It is also testable. One of the predictions is that in places where the habitat is inaccessible (and therefore not subject to human collecting), the snakes there should not be as "wily." Of course, you claim is that you have falsified my hypothesis because you see the same behavior in "remote locations." You are therefore equating a "remote" location with an inaccessible location. The fact that you were able to get there is also evidence that that location is not "inaccessible." Hence I am not convinced that you have falsified my hypothesis. Further, just because a location is remote does not necessarily mean that it has not been visited by collectors.

The fact that many wild zonata have injuries and scars is also evidence against aposematism and mimicry.

I believe your hypothesis is that the injuries and scars were incurred while the snakes were hiding within the rock crevices, and that the survivors of such attacks have learned through experience to retreat into deeper and more inaccessible crevices to escape predation. That may or may not be true. Perhaps you can provide more evidence to support that hypothesis. If the injuries were sustained while the snakes were out in the open, then your hypothesis would be disproven. Perhaps it was musk that enabled L. zonata to escape predation. Or perhaps it was its bite? L. zonata is known to bite when picked up in the wild. While the bite may not deter a human collector, it may be effective against some predators. A skunk that is bitten on the nose, for example, may let the snake go unharmed.


   

[ Reply To This Message ] [ Subscribe to this Thread ] [ Show Entire Thread ]


>> Next Message:  RE: Breeding weight for zonata - Rick Staub, Sat Apr 25 01:09:32 2009

<< Previous Message:  RE: Breeding weight for zonata - Rick Staub, Wed Apr 22 09:49:25 2009



kingsnake.com | NRAAC.ORG | ReptileBusinessGuide.com | ReptileShowGuide.com | ReptileShows.mobi | Connected By Cars | DesertRunner.org
AprilFirstBioEngineering | GunHobbyist.com | GunShowGuide.com | GunShows.mobi | GunBusinessGuide.com | club kingsnake | live stage magazine


powered by kingsnake.com
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
pool banner - advertise here
Click to visit Sierra Fish and Pets
advertise here
Click to visit PACNWRS
advertise here
kingsnake.com® is a registered trademark© 1997-
    - this site optimized for 1024x768 resolution -