Been thinking about some of the things you said and I have a little input for what it's worth (or not worth! ).

>>Also a couple bigger guys got some clutches from breeders at pretty low prices and in an effort to dump them asap they put them up as non-feeders for super cheap. That sort of put the whole market price into question with folks that do not understand all the work going into breeding, hatching, and getting the babies to feed trying to get feeding babies from guys who are producing them themselves for the wholesaler market crashing price on non-feeders.

I honestly have to disagree to some extent. The BHP market has been on a free fall for years, just like every other. Just over a decade ago they were $15K each and even more! Prices falling are a natural effect of a capitalist economy where supply, demand and no-price fixing exists. For a number of years now a significant quantity of BHP have been entering the market at 'below' public market value here and there. I've seen in the past three years alone a few animals from time to time in the $850 to $1000 range. Heck, I saw adults last year I think for like $2500 each!

My opinion is this: Three clutches made no difference on the actual 'value' or prices of BHP. Why? Lets look at a similar market: Green Tree Pythons. They were a holy grail for years for so many people, myself included. Breeders dedicated endless hours to their reproduction which years ago was seen as extremely difficult. Then in almost an instant a single importer was able to change the demographics forever bringing in CH babies in large numbers. At first there was surely massive panic, then acceptance as it became apparent that farmed baby GTP were not going away. What happened? Some breeders got out (same as in BHP no doubt) but in the end, not much really! The people who domestically bred them no longer got $750 each, they got $450 to $500 each. Then as numbers increased it dropped to $350 each and seems pretty steady to me. CH imports are $200 to $250 and CBB are $300 and up. What still remained? The specialized breeders working with morphs and locales. They STILL get their money. Why? The buyers are educated and know the difference in many cases. They know they want CBB and they buy them. The people who want 'cheap' buy 'cheap'. In the end, everyone adjusted. I feel BHP buyers are the exact same way. Some want a 'cheap' fix while others want the designer animals selectively bred for certain traits. In the end I honestly believe the market suffered absolutely no ill as a result of a few clutches of non feeders being put out for public consumption in 2010. While I have no need to justify my personal actions, I will tell you this: In 2010 I wholesaled 2 (yep, only two) animals to a 'dealer'. I was at an expo and needed cash immediately for something else, plain and simple. I have no regrets with the decision. The rest from 2010? I sold (non-wholesale) a small group of non feeders to a husband and wife who have been keeping BHP for years, plan to reproduce them and were MORE than eager to get their hands wet with non feeders if you will (and bring in another bloodline to work with). The rest are still here in my collection. Some eating, some are not. You know the drill. Anyway, my point is that there are a LOT (yes, a heck of a lot) of BHP being produced relative to the potential demand at a certain price. The 'high end' BHP breeders are always going to have cutting edge animals and will get their prices just like the designer GTP, Ball, Blood, Carpet, etc. people do. I believe this 100% as I've seen it time and time again over the past 15 years.

>>Myself and some of the others that put the work in on these have refused to half our prices just because 3 clutches went to market at wholesale. The buyers are waiting for some hot looking babies to come up for sale at the wholesale price and that is not going to happen but in the mean time the market has a misconceived lower baby price to the point that I am not even marketing my 2010 babies. I am instead just sitting back enjoying watching them grow and changing my mind on which animals to hold back. I really love these snakes and truly enjoy working with them more than anything else besides my Pseustes so I am more than happy to sit back and feed them.

You nailed it there! DO NOT sell anything for less than you feel the value. But, always keep in mind that there's going to be someone producing large numbers and diluting the market even more. It's a simple fact of our economic system. Trust me when I say this, there are a lot (and I really mean a LOT) of adult BHP in collections working toward massive production. Will this change things in the future? No doubt! But, the 'designers' will remain and always have buyers. A friend of mine who produces some of the most amazing GTP I've ever seen sold nearly two clutches this season at a starting price of $1000 each per baby! I was completely floored by this and it simply solidified my opinions stated here. I believe there are always going to be two markets to everything. I'm not at all suggesting you lower your prices, but simply keep in mind what's really going on out 'there'. Me? In some ways I'm all for lower prices. It puts the animal in reach of a heck of a lot more hobbyists who no longer have to wait to get what they have always dreamed of. I'm in this boat too! I NEVER thought there would be a day when I kept let alone reproduced BHP. I could not be happier with them and always plan to work with them.

>>From what I have seen in the cheap babies, they have been quite dark with muddy patterns and not feeding.

This is where I must respectfully disagree. I've seriously never seen a BHP I did not find some type of 'quality' with. No kidding, I can recall probably 10 years ago seeing 'black backs' and hearing other people at an expo talking about how ugly they thought they were! Seriously, I'd go APE right now for one of D.R.'s black backs- I LOVE those things! Heck, I purposely kept back the 'ugliest' baby produced from three years ago and he's one of my absolute favorites. Beauty I believe can be found in these animals no matter the color/pattern, etc... I guess I'm just wild about BHP. Sorry to disagree with you so strongly, but I really think all BHP are just killer, plain and simple. The BHP 'puppy mills' are still making beautiful snakes in my eyes. Again, just my opinion.

>>I don't really expect to see many more of these quick dump clutch sales next year, they are just not that easy to breed.

Unfortunately (yes, I do mean 'unfortunately' that since I too have a lot of time and $ vested in my BHP) it's going to be more and more frequent in much larger numbers. But, I'm OK with that. I know my babies (at least in my eyes) are beautiful, robust and I'm 100% honest with people. I tell them they DO NOT eat and they understood 100%! I tell them they eat and they are guaranteed eating 100%. Jason, you've got great looking animals, a good attitude in the posts I've read from you and seem to know what you're doing with BHP. I have little doubt that the right buyers will see what you offer and wind up with your animals. Sorry to ramble so much... I'm REALLY sick with a bad cold so I truly hope you do not take any offense to anything I've written as there is NO malice in my typing. Just my skewed opinions and perspectives.

Matt
p.s. - Nearly 10 years ago I got into Albino Ball Pythons... talk about a difference in prices now! It's all part of the deal and I'm okay with this. Sometimes I feel like I've taken a beating but in all reality the buyer base is now HUGE and growing! I've been good to them and they have been good to me. I see only good things with what we do, plain and simple.
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

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