Hi Crocdoc, first, its not now or ever has been about chest beating. It may have been for you, but not me. And I fully understand you not understanding that. For instance, is it chest beating for you to show your beautiful offspring?????????? No, why?

Then why is it chest beating for me? The point is, I have and had results long before you kept your first lacie. Then you came along with the termite mound thing. While that is great, Lacies have more nesting abilities then termite mounds, as in, THEY ARE NOT OBLIGATE TERMITE MOUNT NESTERS. They can and do have other abilities, both in nature and in captivity.

When I started with varanids, two fellas, Dennis King and a Vet from Canada, sent me tons, and I mean tons of papers on varanids. Included in those papers were several wild lacie clutches. They were nests found in hollow limbs. ALso there was mention of termite mounds. I was well aware of that long before you came along.

As a logical person, why on friggin earth would I contimplate termite mounds, we simply do not have them or that species here. I have to work with LACIES, here in the states, at my place in the states(conditional and situational) So if they required termite mounds, then I would be stuffed.

So, we offerred hollow limbs and deep soil and deep leaflitter. We have a few nestings in or close to hollow limbs, but many many deep leaflitter nestings, IN ALL CASES we offerred both. A hollow limb is a VERSION of a wooden nest box and other choices.

Of course having visited Mr. Horns at his house and seeing his setup, I did attempt wooden nest boxes, but the other offerings were what was used. Thats is history, not theory.

All in all, I recomend what HAS WORKED BEST FOR ME, as that is my experience. It would not be wise to recomend what does not work best for me, would it?????? Its not wise to recomend some method based on termite mounds, when you and others will not put termites in your house or reptile buildings. hahahahahahahaha

AS you mentioned, Lacies do not use mounds without termites, so any mention of termite mounds is useless in captivity.

About nest boxes, yes, you can use them, but as you know, they have to be setup just EXACTLY RIGHT. IS THAT SO? And setup right means, in the conditions you are in. The conditions in Sydney do not relate to here, not in the least.

ALso, when BEGINERS ask about nesting, do you really think they will understand how to set up a nest box, exactly right?????? How could they, they have no experience, they are beginers. Sir, your advantage was, they are in your yard, and many mates keep them around you. Most here do not have that advantage.

For instance, if I wanted to breed gilas, it would not be a problem. I see them, watch them copulate, nest, etc. all in nature. Right here.



On the otherhand, whole cage nesting not only offers more choices, including the exact choices you offer with a box, but is far more forgiving to the keeper, there is more room for error. Which is why I normally recomend it.

In reality, I have recomended nest boxes, but not over the internet where I have no idea of what the actual situation is, I must know that conditions will support next boxes. Which are mainly in cooler climates where the mass temps are fairly low.

I would still love to hear about your results, and surely there is reason.

I wrote this yesterday, but was timed out and lost it. You and I both know, there is far more to this then nesting. Its THAT HUSBANDRY plus nesting that you and I could have some great discussions.

ABout chest beating, I have been breeding reptiles since 1962, and many many species, its not chest beating. When asked about a species I have experience with, the results are a resume, Its to allow the reader to understand the level of experience. As you know, many here talk out their bums and have NO experience. They think reading is experience. Or they are the ones chest beating.

One last thing about your "obligate" termite mound nesting, while I understand, they do nest in mounds, your theory about being obligate is based on one assumption that I suggest you test. And that is, overwintering. Your assuming they cannot overwinter at lower temps. Which is questionable, as we had them overwinter outside here and its much much colder here then in Sydney. With no harm to the eggs. The eggs overwintered and hatched. Dang see what experience does, it messes up everything.

So, yes, I do have reason to disagree with you. I have seen laices nest in other ways, both in nature and in captivity.

The real problem is right here, if you read the above, its about varanids in captivity, this is not a natural history forum. Its about what works in captivity. First and foremost.

My bet is, you and I would be great mates in the field.

You know I love natural history, but you do have to seperate that from what actually works in captivity. In your case, you have a heated wooden box. Not a termite mound, that has worked for you.

I have had hollow logs and deep leaflitter work for me, John had deep heated soil work for him. Theres nothing that indicates "obligate" in captivity.

What I find puzzling is, why don't you try all the methods, as I have, then I would be more confident in your recomendations. Also, I would be more confident if you tested many females, as we find each female has can make different choices.

So lets move on and compare results and forget about that chest beating. To me, thats a useless waste of time. I am now, and always have been interested in results and not theory or chest beating.

It is sad, the varanid world is so full of theory and chest beating, and it is because of lack of success. Which makes it very sad that two individual people like you and I cannot compare results and discuss different methods of reaching similar goals. Cheers

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