This is a very interesting post, Simias. While I appreciate your viewpoint and I may even agree with you on several points I have a few comments that I need to make.

Firstly, if you have evidence to suggest that the Malagasy tortoises (Pyxis specifically) are not in significant danger, published evidence, evidence that they are abundant in secure habitat, I'd love to have it as I've been asked to write a review about them and I am not nearly as hopeful about their future. Discussions I had with John Behler prior to his death regarding Madagascar served only to strengthen my notion that unless significant changes are made in how deforestation is being handled there, it is only a matter of time before the island is paved.

As far as the pet trade is concerned, there is no evidence to support that quotas or enforcement of importation laws will change anything. It never has. Firstly, the countries of origin in most cases have neither the resources, nor the desire to enforce regulations. It is very difficult to convince a person who's net annual income is $30 that selling a tortoise or a snake or monkey, that they otherwise would have eaten, for a dollar is a bad idea. Secondly there will always be an alternative means to funnel animals into this country. The recent influx of star tortoises is evidence of that. Sure, the US has strict laws preventing the importation of these animals before they reach 4 inches. So what happens? They are collected,(illegally) raised until they reach the 4 inch threshold and are brought here through Europe or somewhere else. Of course, along the way, there is a significant death rate and once they make it here, the percentage that die only increases.
So, the next thing we could all do is decide that we will not purchase anything that we suspect is wild caught. So those importers who are holding the pancakes decide that instead of trying to sell them for $400, they drop their price to $150. You can be sure that as you drop the price you will attract an entire new class of "hobbyist", to use your term, who will purchase these. I've seen it happen. When Egyptian tortoises were abundant and $69 at Petland you couldn't keep enough of them in stock. Every single one would sell. Of course, price them at $500 and you will only get serious, committed "collectors". Those who have a vested interest in getting them to reproduce.

"That is what hobbyists tell themselves to rationalize the keeping of animals that they find cool and fascinating". Such an indictment. I've heard this so many times. I'm not going to argue that it is not true in some cases. I hope that the bulk of this audience is sophisticated enough to not fall into this category of "hobbyist". This is a statement that a scientist makes. Well, I have to admit, I am a scientist as well. The difference is that I've had 20 years around these animals, and around the so-called "pet industry" for my opinions to evolve.

The notion that these animals are only safe in the hands of "scientists" is far from true. Their fate rests in the hands of government which will secure habitat at a time when every economic incentive would direct efforts in the opposite direction, with scientists who will hopefully help government to identify both the animals at risk and the most effective means of conserving them and finally with concerned, responsible captive breeders. I can tell you, find a few hundred acres of secure, suitable habitat in Madgascar and it will not be difficult to find successful breeders in this country that could repopulate that country with genetically diverse groups of all the animals that exist there.

Wow, this has been an incredibly long message. I will finish by saying that my viewpoint is not very far from yours, Simias. I am disgusted when I see 3 Russian tortoises and a forest hingeback in a 20 gallon tank at the local petstore. My comments are not to suggest that we should have animals pouring into this country from all over the world to support an "exotic fetish". But I do believe that the solution to this problem is complex and involves many groups of people, not one of which has any chance of arriving at the solution on its' own. Unfortunately, these diverse groups have never demostrated an ability to work together and I'm not hopeful that that will change anytime soon. We operate in a vacuum, very separate from each other. No chance of that succeeding...

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