greetings everyone..first i'd like to say that i have never posted here, but i do from time to time read thru some of these interesting threads. i do have alot of time field collecting in so. fla.I would agree with Tom C.here on his observation that the everglades color variant { Erythrisc} and the more common yellow rat have lived in the same populations in S. Fla. for as far back as collectors go. Not only because Tom Crutchfield is well respected in the herp community, but his field knowledge and his interactions with many of the old time collectors & early herpers that pioneered collecting reptiles in S. fla. and the S.E. U.S. for that matter. I've had the pleasure of knowing, befriending, and collecting with a few of the old time "Characters" that were some of the early Fla. Herpers.A couple of these guys were the late great Art Bass, who was a self proclaimed "rat snake king" and another was Rene' Laguardeut.This topic about obseleta in S. Fla. was tossed back and forth many times around the coffee table. With some of these guys, i might add if it was in the morning , coffee would be on the menu. But any other time Beer trumped Java no matter where we were !!! haha I can remember hunting trips, or riding from one spot to another, we'd talk about where the best yellows and glades came from, and certain places glades were, a little more common than other spots.Many times we'd get glades and yellows out of the same tree's or under the same debris. Art would call nice yellow's with a wash of orange on them " Yella Glades". Also i have observed, that what is called an everglades can vary quite a bit.Some variations are:
- Bright orange with dark stripes
- Bright orange with faint stripes or stripes almost non existent
- Orange with stripes and darker orange/ brown blotches
identical to plate 42 G and plate 44 E & F of " A Monograph of the Colubrid Snakes of the Genus Elaphe by Klaus-Dieter Schulz.The latter plate is actually recognized as " Deckerti" in this book. These plates look the same as everglades on the mainland.
- Some individuals that are as crap boil orange as can be do not always have entirely red tongues.
In my experience and shared knowledge from some of these old timers, all of the said glades or yellows from S. Fla. always have Bright yellow or orange labials. Which makes me wonder about some of the really orange glades that are in the hobby that have white upper and lower labials. What is the background this trait? Just something i've pondered over , as i've never seen an everglades in the field or from the field that had this trait. I like many of long time herpers in Fla. have caught a fair share of yellows and glades. By the way i've caught everglades as far north as Sarasota Co.In fact one of the nicest orange specimen was from there. Which is a stretch from what is considered the everglades. Thanks for reading this long post, Alan

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