The following two comments came out of the marketing discussion that I thought were especially worth pursuing.

The first was posted by others but most clearly by Aaron. He said, "The problem in my mind then becomes how do you break the news, so to speak, to a person who has posted a picture of a species, subspecies and/or locality specimen that is obviously not what they think it is?"

For my part I don't think its universally important to bring it to light that every animal posted on the forum be identified as being pure or otherwise. If an animal is misidentified, ie is an obvious cross but listed otherwise I would think a simple statement about your thoughts on the IMMEDIATE subject would be sufficient and helpful. Expanding on how you hate it that newbies don't do their homework first, or how the colubrid market has become the wild wild west and the person been screwed is probable not too helpful.

I am less clear on how to handle locality if for no other reason that the term its self is less clear. I HATE how people like Ric Blair have been dragged through the mud when animals generations removed from them produce atypical neonates. All in all there is no system available for the tracking of local animals that extends to the general market. For instance, Joe promotes the best standard to date, that being local stock is directly traceable back to wild caught animals from a specified location. But let an atypical animal be produced and the whole thing falls apart. Perhaps there's merit to this but why is it we can accept phenotypic drift in Doug's brooks but not in Ric's greybands? Just some food for thought.

The second comment was brought out by Will "Colubrids, no matter how much we love them, are essentially stagnant. Nothing really new is happening (except in hognose snakes - which is really the bp market's little brother)."

I first have to say that I don't get the hognose thing either. Some are quite pretty but there is nowhere near the magnitude of morph variation needed to create the level of diversity you see with BPs. People are just hyped about hognose and that in of it's self is contagious.

The real question is how do we make it so that colubrids, in general, are no longer stagnant? I've come up with the following:

NEW localities that are ALSO distinctive is one definite way, Will's GA and NJ kings are great examples of this. Local for local sake in my view doesn't generate much enthusiasm other than for those directly involved in collecting the stock.

Waiting for decreased market participation. Yes absence makes the heart grow fonder. I wonder however if this strategy is really going to work. My thought is that we've hit a point where there are so many hobbyist / breeders that can easily produce these animals that there is always going of be a surplus taken to local pet shops and the poorly promoted reptile shows (flea markets)despite the lack of well reasoned economic incentive. The thing about this is that these animals aren't widgets. They are living breathing entities that should demand respect. When they're over produced we loose a lot more than economic value.

I would say not supporting some of these flea market type shows that feed off of over production would be a positive move for the community.

Establishing strong lineages. The best example I can think of this is Vivid Reptiles. Tim gets premium price for his animals because he puts a lot of effort into developing and maintaining lineage. In the case of thayeri his collection has been pretty much closed to the general market for a long time. He is a great example of someone who understands that he can stay true to his values (on purity) without having to engage in the general market negativity.

Lastly I think we need to be a bit more tolerant of morph and hybrids. Morphs and morph combinations have always generated enthusiasm but there has been a small and very vocal group who has been hard at work portraying this as a second-class tier of the hobby. Hybrids are a bit touchier of a subject. I understand the bias against them but the reality is this market segment CAN coexist with the locality and pure sub-specific niches. The two are not mutually exclusive. Hybrid combinations make for some amazingly beautiful animals and properly done can result in a vastly increased number of stable phenotypes that would freshen the passion for keeping colubrids in general.

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