Posted by:
HFR
at Wed Apr 13 12:12:21 2005 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by HFR ]
>>I read a post once from a person who bred a Pastel (maybe...I can't remember the exact morph) X Normal and produced Spiders. Being shocked by the unexpected outcome of Spider hatchlings, this person contacted the breeder who sold him the Normal female. It seems the breeder had tried breeding a Spider to this female the previous season with no luck. The conclusion they reached regarding the unexpected Spider hatchlings was long-term sperm storage. Not too uncommon.
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>>This brings me to my latest question...
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>>Can a homozygous (visual) Albino X Normal produce Normal hatchlings...or rather...could a 100% Heterozygous Albino hatchling (from Albino X Normal) be completely normal? Yes, if the mother was exposed to a normal male the year before. As long as the mother wasn't exposed to temps high enough to kill the sperm, she has the ability to retain the normal male's sperm.
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>>It seems to me that if sperm storage can in fact be long-term (at least one season), then it is plausible that any supposed 100% Heterozygous animal could actually be completely normal. (That is, unless the female was a virgin.) Most responsible/ethical breeders are (or should be) aware of this and steps are taken to avoid this.
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>>For instance, if in 2004 I attempt to breed a Pastel male to a Normal female and no successful ovulation takes place, I may still try to breed her again the next season. So in 2005 I breed her with a homozygous (visual) Albino male. She clutches and out pop six (6) healthy hatchlings. These hatchlings are assumed to be sired by the Albino male (100% Heterozygous Albino). However, a few (if not all) could actually have been sired by the Pastel male. (This example argues that the Pastel male may have passed on his Normal allele only.)
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>>Any thoughts? More than likely, if there's no pastels in the clutch, you could assume they were all het albino. But there's a big difference between assuming and knowing. You're aware of this with what you mention above. If you're intending on holding them all back for yourself, great. But it would be hard to offer them to others as 100% het albino with any degree of morality or responsibility to the ones purchasing them. You could make it clear by stating the history of the breedings as others have done and grading the price to compensate for it. But breeders that are actually doing what you mention above without notifying the buyers should be careful if they plan to stay with this for any amount of time. They'd be playing a risky game. At least that's the way I see it. There's definitely been instances where codom morphs have bred normals and produced very low visual offspring, even as low as producing NO visual offspring. It happens. And when you throw sperm retention into the situation you bring up...ahhh the paranoia can run deep....LOL
There's an easy way to avoid all of this - get more virgin females. This isn't a soapbox stance, but this is the way it happens here... I designate each female to one recessive morph permanently, and make sure any mother of definite hets I'm selling was a virgin prior to being bred. I don't even mix and rotate a het male and visual male of the same morph across that female. These are females I've raised up. No other morphs are ever introduced to this female. I won't even combat a male of another morph (even normal) with the breeding male for that female (use sheds if you have to or another visual male of the same morph). We've all either seen or heard of males breeding males before right? There's just no reason to gamble with it when you weigh the pros and cons.
I HAVE bred male codom's to females that were bred by recessive morphs the year prior. This type of situation really only benefits the buyer, and once that female was bred by the codom, she's designated as off limits permanently to any recessive-morph male. The visual codom morphs that are produced are offered as such, and the normals are sold as normals. That's the only safe situation, and it could actually be a bonus to the buyer of normals, if there WAS any sperm retention from previous recessive breedings. I don't think anyone's going to complain about buying a normal pastel sibling, if it turns out to be het pied as well.
Doing it like this may seem overboard, and I don't produce as much as others trying different males, or mixing up recessive and codom males on one female. And If that female doesn't ovulate from that designated morph male - so be it. There's always next year. It's a hell of alot easier guaranteeing the genetics of those offspring you sell when you know for sure. Good luck with it.
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>>Chris
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>>“Next time don't buy $10K worth of snakes out of the back of a van!” -- Toshamc
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Joe Yakelis
HellFire Reptiles
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RE: Albino X Normal - HFR, Wed Apr 13 12:12:21 2005