Sir, I never said "only" that is a word you added, on your own. Sir, you adding one small word, makes a huge difference in understanding. By adding "only" you not only are prejudicing your own thoughts, but also others that are reading this thread.



If you work with behavior, there IS NO ONLY. Behavior works with averages and trends. Most do this, most tend to do that, some react in this manner, others in another manner, etc. That is behavior. As such, ethology is not a "pure" science. There is commonly more then one answer to one question or more accurately, more then one responce to one stimuli.



People normally do not murder other people, yet they do. We live in pairs, in a colony. Most of the time there is no murder, but there are exceptions. Thats behavior.



Snakes live in colonies, and do not consume eachother(normally). That is normal. Can exceptions occur, OF COURSE. So I ask, what good is it dwelling on exceptions and mishaps.



In the case of keepers, you get overprotective keepers that do not allow the animals to be THE ANIMALS. Nature is NOT overprotective and yet they function and exsist just fine.



Natures goal is, to produce more animals(to recruit) then is lost. The excess is supporting the ecosystem(a tax) Sadly, most overprotective keepers produce less then they lose. Hmmmmm and there are no predators or floods, or fires, hmmmmmmm how sad.



The reality is, over the decades, we have lost more individuals to "normal" keeper mistakes, like leaving the door open or some other such thing, then due to cannibalism.



Also in nature, we have a very very low turnover rate in the colonies, but a high turnover rate with single animals. Again, that is a report, not a statement of theory.



Jeff sort of asked what biology was to me. I didn't tell the whole truth. I gather data, Period. When doing field studies, its not right to prejudice your data, as in, looking for this or that, to prove this or that. We set up our parameters, that is, our study must include basic life events, including neonates, reproductive activities and feeding activities. While paying special attention to the interference of our methods of taking data. After that, we take data, and work that data out at some later date, away from the field.



With behavior, everything WE do, has an effect. Its all about degree. This is a very sticky point and one of much debate. As seen with the fundamental differences between Jeff and I. If your working with behavior, everything we do has an effect. If your working with biology(the mechanics) your free to disect.



What confuses me is, why are biologists(mechanics) attempting to work out of their field of training, you know, working with ethology(behavior). That my friend is a good question, which is what science is, asking good questions. Cheers

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