return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research  
click here for Rodent Pro
This Space Available
3 months for $50.00
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Herp Photo of the Day: Happy Rattlesnake Friday! . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day: Milk Snake . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - Nov 17, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  San Diego Herp Society Meeting - Nov 19, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Herpetological Society Meeting - Nov 22, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Suncoast Herp Society Meeting - Nov 23, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - Nov 23, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Tucson Herpetological Society Meeting - Nov 25, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - Dec 04, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Calusa Herp Society Meeting - Dec 05, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Southwestern Herp Society Meeting - Dec 07, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Kentucky Reptile Expo - Dec. 07, 2024 . . . . . . . . . . 

RE: nice and fluffy

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Kingsnake Forum ]

Posted by: Aaron at Mon Jun 14 00:32:48 2010   [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by Aaron ]  
   

"But even locality species can't be called locality anymore after a few years because the wild genepool in an area changes all the time, it would only take one snake in an area with a genetic morph to survive to adulthood and breed to change the entire look of a "locality" snake population after a few years. The answer is no it isn't right to pass off a snake with questionable background as pure, and even locality becomes false unless the breeding stock is refreshed from wild caught specimens every couple of years."

While I agree with your sentiments about honesty regarding hybrids I disagree with most of what you said above. One snake is not going to change the look of any normally functioning locality population. It takes environmental pressure to do that. The species that I have been hunting and/or observing(California Mtn. Kings, California Common Kings and Graybanded Kings) have not shown any significant changes in color or pattern in all the years(1996 to the present) I have seen them. Some years one might find more banded than striped or more light phase than dark but in my experience that is at the most merely swings within what is the natural range they have been exhibiting for a very long time.

As far as having to replace or refresh stocks every few years that isn't true either. Consider even if you start with just one pair of wild caught snakes they can probably produce about 10 clutches during their lifetimes. From those F1's it should be easy to holdback at least two or three pairs that closely match wild types. Those two or three pairs of F1's should be able to produce 20 to 30 clutches. If we figure most kings have about 3 to 10 eggs per clutch that is going to give you 60 to 300 F3 babies from which to chose for wild type looks.

For example, I collected a pair of graybands near Langtry, TX in 1996(female) and 1999(male). In 2001 I held back 0.1 F1. In 2007 I again held back 0.1 F1. In 2008 I held back 1.2 F1 offspring. All of these are within the normal range for that locality. In 2012 alone I should have 4 clutches from which to select for wild type looks, not to mention all the clutches the '08 holdbacks have ahead of them. It should be exceedingly easy for me to select wild type looks for many years, maybe even decades and this is all from just one wild caught pair.

Consider also the male I collected in 1999 is still alive. If he had not been collected he(or others of his same generation) would still be producing babies in the wild. This is why I say a locality is not going to change in just a few years without some extrordinary external pressure.

At the rate I have been going I will probably not need to collect another wild specimen for another 10 years. I should be barely starting to breed F3's by then.

I think the reality is most people choose not to maintain collections that represent wild type looks. Most people get sidetracked when they produce someting of exceptional color and they simply go that way.


   

[ Show Entire Thread ]


>> Next Message:  RE: nice and fluffy - BobS, Mon Jun 14 22:48:34 2010

<< Previous Message:  RE: nice and fluffy - texasviper619, Thu Jun 10 12:19:53 2010